We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
Via Wizbang's A Tangled Web. It's not just that one lie leads to another; it's that liars tend to lie. It's part of who they are. See People of the Lie, a book about which Amazon quotes:
Scott Peck is a psychiatrist turned author and lecturer. His name is a household word with the self-help crowd. In People of the Lie, Peck takes on the topic of evil. The"volume" cited is not an abridgment but a group of case studies from the first chapters of the book, along with commentary. The presentations are consistently well done. Peck reads with a soft, yet strong voice that is both self-assured and reassuring.
I admit I have not visited Wizbang in long time, maybe since they went "Wizbang Blue" and Wizbang Music" and who knows what else. I also admit that, when I did go there, it was primarily for the Friday photo caption contests.
I did read Jay's piece, and it is okay. I also would be interested to knwo what people here think of Scott Peck as an author. I have not read, "The Road Less Travelled" or "People of the Lie."
Lastly, I apologize for staring all my sentences with "I."
But I know plenty of generally honest people (myself included) who tell lies which are designed for modest protection. Protection of family, protection of job, protection of stability, etc.
I believe that there are good and honest people who get themselves into difficult situations which require a lie to keep the peace. I know of a man who, despite being a great father and tremendous provider, has confided in me that he is having an affair.
The woman is married. Both have kids. Both are in very stable relationships. Both are very good and nice people. But a lie is the only thing that keeps that in place.
Were the lie to be exposed, it would alter the dynamics of not only their families, but the social circles in which they acquaint themselves.
Are these people "LIARS", or are they "liars"? Or are they engaging simple protection?
There are some who may think the whole thing is a disaster to begin with and they should be honest with their spouses. But the divorce courts would not be kind and everyone would wind up worse off.
Some would say that their marriages are a lie and would be better ended.
These are things that are hard to say you KNOW the answer to. It's just 2 people who are seeking happiness. Is it so wrong a lie is required to maintain that happiness? It would be better if it wasn't....but sometimes life isn't that simple, either.
D, I haven't read either in decades, but they were very influential in my thought 20 years ago.
First the Man tells a Lie, then the Lie tells a Lie, then the Lie tells the Man.
Assistant Village Idiot
there are good lies and there are bad lies.
everyone lies everyday.
and people lie to themselves.
withholding information is deception... thus is a lie. we do not tell everyone everything at all times nor admit to ourselves everything at all times.
there are goods lies and we all know it. to say otherwise is a lie
ex: a- you tell the crazy man that the frightened person went left when really they went right.
b-you tell grandma that, yes, you have an extra ten minutes to talk when you really do not.
c-you help someone somehow.
there are bad lies.
ex: a-you write about lying and never acknowledge your own lies.
b-you hurt someone
what matters is the principles. malicious people can tell truths intending to hurt another and kind people can tell lies to help another.
demanding no lies without looking past them to address principles is the mark of a tyrant or a fool.
a tyrant who doesn't want to discuss principles and a fool doesn't yet know to bring them up.
Methinks, yall have hit few good keys but withholding information ain't lying when the information is none of yall's business.
Point in fact; Census worker drops by me crib and wants to know if I'm white or perhaps other and several other nonsensical questions.
We get to the last one and him asks if I have a phone number where I may be reached if his associates should need clarity on the answers I'd given.
The straight forward answer from meself, "No."
He did a touble take and looked about the room eyein' no phone line but his thoughts were comin' through clear enough, "Ever one hasn't a phone, since never" then jottin' a note upon his questionnaire.
I told him as he finished and with some small sad realized how quick it went, "One of me wives worked Census twenty years ago. She never had a real job to speak of but she could land a government job quicker than a bull whip snap."