We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
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Sunday, January 3. 2010
There are lady soldiers, lady cops, lady firepersons, lady mailpersons, lady everything - for better or worse.
Why are there no lady garbagepersons?
(By the way, I appreciate this past week's Dr. Bliss Festival of Reruns. When I read them, I honestly cannot remember having written them. I would write each post differently if I were to write them today - or maybe not write them at all.)
Posted by Dr. Joy Bliss in The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 09:07 | Comments (19) | Trackback (1)
Thoughts On A Sunday
The Weather Guys™ predicted up to a foot of snow here in the Lakes Region of New Hampshire, but as often happens here in New England, they weren't even close. In this case they overestimated the snowfall, at least...
Weblog: Weekend Pundit
Tracked: Jan 03, 20:27
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There are indeed lady garbagemen...we them here in Niles, Illinois, working for private refuse companies that contract with the suburbs. It's not back-breaking work as the trucks have hydraulic arms that grasp and empty the containers.
There was a time before the idiocy caused by the so-called sexual revolution when women naturally did almost almost every dirty and difficult thing as the men. It was only among a small group of emerging middle class that the luxury of sitting one's ass and writing nonsense like "The Second Sex" and sleeping around with hack writers such as Nelson Algren became so avant garde.
Does anyone think that farm couples argued about division of labor? The problem of competing with men for manual labor jobs lay in the fact of sheer brawn not desire or need.
yes indeed we have female (lady) garbage persons. I have seen a woman doing the job quite well her in Albuquerque NM. Not only that she was a very attractive blond.
My parents had a book of old cartoons and comics that dated from around the beginning of the 1900s. One that stuck in my mind was that of a a wife talking to her husband: "Here I am, stuck over a hot stove all day, and you get to work in a nice cool sewer."
Patricia Hausman ( http://patriciahausman.com/ ) has written extensively on the feminists wanting half of all the good jobs, like university professor or engineer, but none on the bad or dangerous jobs, like garbage person or miner.
It's something I've never thought about before. We don't seem to have them here in Shamokin, PA.
Heh - I'm reminded of my time with the local volunteer fire department - a bastion of male bonding - when one of my EMTs decided she wanted to take an offered course in fire fighting. The debate raged for days and became something of a local cause celebre. It wasn't until she passed the physical test and did it by passing in the top 5% of all the male trainees. It also put an end to the traditional use of Fireman locally as we graduated to Fire Fighter.
I will not detail my contrarian nature in encouraging this young lady to do her thing. :>)
"passing in the top 5% of all the male trainees"
She must be an outstanding physical specimen. Typically the strength overlap between men and women is the strongest 20% of the women are only as strong as the weakest 20% of the men.
You're talking about a volunteer fire department here not a professional fire department. The male physical specimens are not highly...um...athletic and prefer beer to sports drinks and water, steak and potato dinners and a couple of double chocolate donuts with their morning coffee. :>)
Re women in male-dominated jobs. I knew a woman who was the offspring of a TX oilman and a Palestinian. When her father died when she was 19, she put aside her petroleum engineering studies and went to work in the West TX oilfields to support her mother and siblings, at a time when political correctness was long ago and far away from the Permian Basin. She was tough and bright, and rose in the ranks to supervise a small work crew. On one wellsite one of the workers she supervised was a prisoner on a work release program. When the prisoner on work release got a little fresh with his supervisor, she proceeded to use a wrench to whack the prisoner upside the head.
When the toolpusher (foreman for the entire rig work crew) asked the prisoner how he had received the big wound on his head, the prisoner replied that he had slipped and fallen down. The woman went back to school and finished her engineering degree.
Neither all women nor all men are competent at what they do. I was on a well site where an inexperienced woman whom I did not supervise had turned off a piece of equipment when the rig was down for several hours, not realizing that it is less strain to keep it moving than to restart it. When she disconnected the apparatus, sparks flew, and the gas-laden fluid coming up from the bottom of the well got on fire. I tried using a hose on the fire, and fortunately it went out.
Nobody asked but...After twenty years in the Corps I have to admit that they are almost entirely useless in the military...While some of them do damn good work, the overhead comes in the form of EEO complaints, sexual harrassment charges, pregnancies, sex rings, prostitution, distracted males, deployment attrition due to all of the above. Today's commanders have to pay an inordinate amount time dealing with these issues. It takes their minds off the mission at hand...Dead weight!
This sounds very much like my experience while in the Navy. The few good ones don't nearly make up for the host of bad ones and problem associated with the weaker sex. Lots of dead weight. Also a big part of the reason many ratings in the Navy have gone to contractors.
I am acquainted with a female sanitation worker. She works at the dump, in the pit, not as a collector.
To describe her as a lady would be quite a fiction. Approaching 300 pounds, working on a mustache…
Being a lady is about your insides, not your appearance. Still...But I know what you mean.
Why no garbagepersons? Well they became "sanitation engineers" until the IEEE sued over the term "engineer". I think they (the IEEE) lost that battle about the piece of paper from a school making the person an "engineer", seeing how engineer also applied to those people operating things like trains and such. So, wanting to be a closed society much like doctors and lawyers and unions, they came up with the "Professional Engineer" requirements and now to be a "real' engineer, you must get "PE" certified. This is not a bad thing in the engineering case per. se. Just knowing my electrical engineer friend can sign off PE a bridge construction project because of that "PE" just makes me all warm and fuzzy about driving over the latest conduit across the Colorado River gorge.....
The odds of an EE taking on a civil engineering type project are minimal. Because Professional Engineers know that they put their licenses on the line every time they sign on to do a project, they are VERY careful to take on work appropriate to their expertise.
I found that out when I was looking for a PE to do an inspection on a shoddy construction job. While this was definitely a job for a PE with a civil engineering degree, most of the PEs with civil engineering degrees I contacted declined to take on the job, because the particular job was outside their expertise. However, those who declined the job were quite helpful in referring me to PEs who did have that expertise. The engineer I selected came from such a "I don't do that but here is someone who will" type of referral. The engineer's court testimony several years later was also quite useful.
The shortage of women in trash collection could also be partly that most people, when crashing barriers, prefer to land in upscale jobs rather than what may seem downscale jobs.
Garbage disposal is always of interest to me because every local government has a policy on it even if it that is "we have no policy." It is something tangible that even lay people can have an opinion on, but rarely do. It is as close to an experiment in private postal service as we are likely to get. My cousin with three kids in California relayed at thanksgiving that it is illegal (aka against the law, punishable by fines) to put out more than 10 gallons of trash a week and that number will shrink to 5 gallons/week in 2015. I told her she can FedEx her garbage to me at a very nominal fee (unfortunately for me there are some college students in Cali that would take her trash cheaper).
I've lived in places where the town does garbage and alternatives are outlawed (you pay for it in taxes either way so private companies can't compete with "free"), places with multiple private providers (some who would even go down your driveway and open your garage!), places where it is illegal for anyone to pick up trash at your house (you have to go to the dump yourself), and condo associations who sell out their members for monopoly rights by selling "official" garbage bags at $3 a pop. The experiments in garbage are many.