Maggie's Farm

We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.

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Much Sorry with Delays
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How to Honor Labor Day, Every Day
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Easy for you to say: To the elites on mass immigration
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Thursday, October 29. 2009

Thursday morning links

WSJ: Doctors on Health-Care Reform 'Government is in the process of duplicating everything that managed care did for the last 15 years that was reviled by everybody.'


Report: Cash for Clunkers was a lemon


George Soros launches a $50 million effort to purge economics of its free-market zeal.


Peeing on the O's photo would show true artistic courage, but it would be equally adolescent.


Well, nowadays, true artistic courage would be to create something that would add grace, nobility, and beauty to the world.


Speaking of "art," desecrating the flag for health care


Chicago Trib endorses Repub health plans


Hitchens dares enter the Christian world, finds it's not scary


Marginal Rev: Mandates don't stay modest. Autism treatments


Via Vanderleun:



"Northwest Nap"


It's the word of the day @ Urban Dictionary - A very deep sleep where you are unable to hear telephones, text messages, and even the Air Force. Named to honor the two fine pilots from Northwest Airlines and their little "in flight snooze."



Gateway:



Pelosicare will force individuals to buy the government insurance, will tax the wealthy, and will result in rationed care and the end of private health insurance industry.
It’s a socialist’s dream.


Posted by The News Junkie in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 06:51 | Comments (16) | Trackbacks (0)

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I favor flag desecration. It's a great canary in the coal mine for free speech.

Flags are for post offices, and embassies overseas to signal the presence of people you can find your feet with.

The argument long ago in the WSJ was that the flag belongs to everybody, snake oil salesmen and citizens and weirdos alike. Nobody gets to say who qualifies for what.

Ancient John and Ken (KFI) radio show on saying the pledge in school, which starts slowly but gets amusing as very angry patriots call in.

http://rhhardin.home.mindspring.com/pledge.ram

real audio, probably June 3, 1998, if the file date is to be believed.

Angry patriots are the danger on the right.
#1 rhhardin (Link) on 2009-10-29 08:22 (Reply)
Fair enuf - but it is obnoxious and does not win friends.
#1.1 bd on 2009-10-29 08:55 (Reply)
Northwest was an ass-covering overreaction.

Naps by one pilot while the other covers are illegal but winked at owing to its improving pilot performance when it comes time to land.

The other pilot fell asleep, is all.
#2 rhhardin (Link) on 2009-10-29 08:29 (Reply)
Obama Care remains a ploy. As Jason Lewis has suggested, the single payer issue can be given up as a concession since the administration's end run has always been focused on governmental micro management of everything. Not one of our institutions has ever been run well by government at any level. Valued ideas about competence, merit, and achievement have little value in their Utopian Delusion. Soros, the real life psychopathic genius is continuing to lead his countless minions toward the complete destruction of our country. How can any private insurance company meet governmental standards and their attendant mandates? Well, they can't and won't. Once the camel's nose is under the tent, it's all over.

We will not give up-ever!
#3 Thalpy on 2009-10-29 09:04 (Reply)
The NW pilots' "official" story disturbs me more than if they had fallen asleep. At least sleep has some return-on-risk benefit. That they were so distracted by some discussion on company policy that they didn't hear their call signal after repeated attempts to contact them? What good does that do me as a passenger on that flight?

OTOH, maybe we need to make cockpits less roomy so they're more like riding in coach. Hard for me to sleep with so little leg room. Ironically, my legs don't have that problem.
#4 KRW on 2009-10-29 11:28 (Reply)
Let see, George Soros made became uber rich by the free market system. But, now that he has his wealth, he seeks to put controls on the market so others can't become as wealthy as he has. He, frankly, has wealth and people in power who listens to him. His views on economics, politics and the first amendment make him one of the most dangerous men in America.
#5 Doug on 2009-10-29 11:56 (Reply)
KRW & rhhardin,

I believe we can say the whole story hasn't come out yet. Quick question...Have either of you ever worked in the commercial aviation end of things? (flight crew, ATC etc?)
#6 Garry on 2009-10-29 12:01 (Reply)
Garry,
Nope, but it wouldn't surprise me if a totally different story comes out further on down the road. Wouldn't surprise me if that story later turns out to be a lie also. The thing I'm curious about is their missing their call sign. Unless they both were very new to that route, wouldn't that catch their attention at some point? I mean, there's two of them. Maybe we need a phone contact in the steward/stewardess section to tell them to go wake up the pilot(s). I doubt any of them sleep on this kind of a flight.

Note, I really don't care if they catch some shut-eye so long as there are procedures to deal with it. There's a reason there's two guys on board that know how to fly the plane.
#6.1 KRW on 2009-10-29 12:33 (Reply)
It could be that both pilots coincidently decided to take a quick snooze without telling the other he/she was doing so, as it is against the rules in this country of course. So perhaps an unspoken agreement up front that such is okay and one will 'stand guard' while the other naps. So, each thinking the other was 'on guard', they lowered the volume in their headsets, etc.

Yes, other aviation authorities in the world do allow for naps in the cockpit, some even encourage it for certain types of long flights. Either way there are procedures in place for exactly how to do so. Hell, on Air France the pilots can have wine with dinner, so I've heard anyway.
#6.1.1 Luther on 2009-10-29 13:43 (Reply)
Luther,

Depending on the airline and the length of the flight there can be 1 extra Captain or a full cockpit crew onboard plus sleeping quarters for the pilot(s) to get their rest. Don't know about "wine avec le repas" though.

Cheers.
#6.1.1.1 Garry on 2009-10-29 14:22 (Reply)
KRW,

I agree 100% with your reply (mine's on the ATC end of things over 29+ yrs). The "spin-doctor" gears are humming overtime on this one, rest assured!

Call signs are missed all the time but the silence usually lasts for less than a minute. You are astute to suggest a new route might be involved but the nav system must be programmed and it would have all sorts of bells going off, if destination was missed (maybe the nav inputs were incorrect). Radio failure is a possibility or an incorrect frequency dialed in or the "Victor Oscar Lima" dial was turned down...all possibilities BUT not enough to excuse the crew for NOT knowing where they were...

With all the recent (3-4 yr) problems NW has had it would not be beyond the realm of possibility that their operating authority could now be in jeopardy and that is why the first stories don't sound believable. And I agree, with you, that the final (official/NW) version might be suspect as well. Time will tell.

As rhhardin suggested, maybe "nap time" was the singular cause. I must add that, regarding "Critical Incident Investigations", there is an understanding that "people don't cause incidents...factors do". It is necessary to find out what factors played a role (including the human factor), what percentage of each is attributable to the end result and what procedures (or SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures)) and/or CFM (Cockpit Flight Management) rules might need adjustment, to help in preventing this from happening again. These investigations are thorough. But you have to read the internal reports to truely know what happened. These are sometimes vetted before they are released to the public.

I will be following this one with interest. It is a serious event and should not have occurred. But it will...that darned "human factor" agaun.

Cheers.
#6.1.2 Garry on 2009-10-29 14:10 (Reply)
oops! again
#6.1.2.1 Garry on 2009-10-29 14:13 (Reply)
Garry,
My comment on the new route was not in regard to navigation but in regard to (my assumption) that a pilot who has flown the same route several times would respond to hearing his call sign (I dunno, "Northwest 1369"?) like hearing his own name. It would stand out from the usual chatter/noise in the cockpit and catch the attention of at least one of the two guys...unless, of course, they were sleeping. Or one was sleeping and the other was distracted...In addition to takeoff/landing, don't they respond to several air traffic calls as they cross control zones? Or are they oblivious to such so long as they stay above a certain altitude?
#6.1.2.2 KRW on 2009-10-29 15:26 (Reply)
KRW,

Crews are constantly changing their call signs, especially since the introduction of the "Hub". Years ago, crews would write their flight number in grease pencil on the side window or someplace where they would look (on a regular basis) so they wouldn't forget it. I'm sure there is now a digital field (for flt #'s) on the VDT.

Your point/analogy on "name recognition" is quite valid as well.

Re: transiting "Enroute Control Sectors"....as an aircraft flies across the country, the ATControl responsibility is passed from sector to sector. The "handoff" is now done electronically (controller to controller RADAR) in most cases and this handoff must be completed (between controllers) before the pilot is issued a new ATC frequency. This will connect him to the new sector that will provide his control service. A radio call will advise the crew of the call sign of his new ATC sector and the specific frequency they use. The pilot will then acknowledge the frequency change, switch frequency and "check in" with the new controller. The transfer is now complete

This didn't happen, with this NW flight. The "data tag" would allow the controllers to know the details (provided there was no loss of electrical power) concerning altitude, ground speed, etc) of this NW flight and the controllers would have continued to attempt to establish contact. Supervisors would be advised, the "data tag" would be noted as "NORDO" (no radio) and a heads-up co-ordinated with Enroute Sectors". The controllers would then "sterilize" the airspace the "NORDO" was headed for and this would continue until radio contact was established.

As far as altitudes are concerned: any IFR flight from 45,000' and below (with some exceptions) is under constant ATC. Some flights above 45,000' can operate on their own (usually military) and provide their own separation, if approved by ATC.

Sorry for the long post...it is a detailed sort of business.

Cheers.
#6.1.2.2.1 Garry on 2009-10-29 16:06 (Reply)
Garry,
Just detailed enough. Thanks!
#6.1.2.2.1.1 KRW on 2009-10-30 12:55 (Reply)
Pelosi care is a proven debacle.

Mormitt care in yankeeland is case in point.

Mormitt and the Princess from queer town think alike, people are just like cars.
#7 Leag on 2009-10-29 18:17 (Reply)

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