Maggie's Farm

We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.

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Thursday, January 8. 2009

A few Thurs evening links

Nepotism Nation


Big government never needs justification.


Neoneo loves Sanjay


More on the health care Trojan Horse. Coyote


The Generational Theft Act. Michelle


Porn biz wants a bailout too.


How Bush tried to rein in Fanny and Freddie.Rove


Chesler: “The non-Muslim world must have no illusions.”


Jimmy Carter’s defensive tunnels


Kennedy vs. Palin: Driscoll. Related: Palin strikes back


A little ME history. Tiger


How will people handle the end of The New York times?


Via No Left Turns, from Dick Morris:



So it is both fair and sensible to give the poor a tax break and to draw the bulk of federal revenues from the rich. But to exempt the bottom half - a majority of the voters - from paying any taxes and to award them refund checks instead would dangerously alter the fundamental balance of national politics. For the economically well off, it could effectively become taxation without representation - which, as the founders of our nation warned, leads to tyranny.



London busses: There’s no God, so have some fun Via Mr. Free Market:




Dang link problems and spacing problems have me needing a few cold Morettis. 

Posted by The News Junkie in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 18:25 | Comments (23) | Trackbacks (0)

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Hey! How about you boys at Maggie's firing up your little corner of the hive mind and find out what leather the carry concealed folks are using for their self-defense piece.

Just a thought...
#1 Jephnol (Link) on 2009-01-08 18:45 (Reply)
If you spell Morettis H-e-i-n-e-k-e-n I'm way ahead of you.

Re: photo "If God does not exist all things are permissable". My question is: Is life easier believing this to be the truth? Talk to me Christians.
#2 Jephnol (Link) on 2009-01-08 20:12 (Reply)
"If God does not exist all things are permissable".

With or without God, all things are permissible because He gave us free will. It's up to you to follow The Rules.
`
#2.1 Meta on 2009-01-08 21:13 (Reply)
From the Christian perspective I'm familiar with this is not the case. Without God consequences are far from inevitable, but with God consequences are inescapable. The cost of sin is seperation from God, and the price of grace is more than we can afford. We can split hairs, but if God exists I believe the case can be made in the Christian tradition that not all things are permissable.

KRW has no rearview mirrors. For him, all things are permissable?

Also: Gupta. Really?!
#2.1.1 Jephnol (Link) on 2009-01-08 22:29 (Reply)
Jep,
You refer to my comments below about instant replay reviews? It's not "all things are permissible" but "shti happens, move on". Now there's a prime example of some of what has gone wrong with this country. Used to be you (OK, maybe just me) were taught to play/work extra hard because you should expect a break or two to go against you. You just figured it into your budget.

That and opening presents on Christmas Eve instead of Christmas morning...a metaphor for a good chunk of the 2000 election angst.

Now where's that high scoring game the "experts" predicted? End of the 3rd quarter and the over/under barely exceeds the injury count.
#2.1.1.1 KRW on 2009-01-08 22:59 (Reply)
"Without God consequences are far from inevitable, but with God consequences are inescapable. The cost of sin is seperation from God, and the price of grace is more than we can afford. We can split hairs, but if God exists I believe the case can be made in the Christian tradition that not all things are permissable."

Jephnol - Correct. But it's still your choice. There are universal truths that state that certain things are not permissible. Choose your pick. The inevitable is inescapable.
`
#2.1.1.2 Meta on 2009-01-08 23:11 (Reply)
Meta, let me reframe Dostoyevsky's conclusion: If God does not exist, nothing else matters -- or meaningless, meaningless, everything under the sun. Morality is so much smoke in the wind, and if a thing can be gotten away with their is no consequence.

But if the Christian conception of God exists, without grace, a gift given at an unimaginable price, none will escape the penalty for moral transgression and all have fallen short of God. As it stands apart from grace, none will escape judgement--no act will remain hidden.

I cannot speak to the truth of this matter. It's beyond my reason as all matters of faith are, but the structure of the argument seems sound. I guess we'll see.
#2.1.1.2.1 Jephnol (Link) on 2009-01-09 09:42 (Reply)
Jephnol....

"If God does not exist, nothing else matters ..." Do you give yourself value? Worth? Does God make you do it, or does biological imperative demand it? Does the sight of your young son demand it? Does the need in another demand it?

"Morality is so much smoke in the wind, and if a thing can be gotten away with their is no consequence." .... Yes. But there is a back-up system in place: Ethics.

"...if the Christian conception of God exists, without grace, a gift given at an unimaginable price,...." The Christian conception of God does exist. An 'unimaginable' price? Was it unimaginable for the two next to him? I think it is unimaginable that six million Jews were roasted, starved, shot because they didn't believe that bit about grace. Who knows. What the hell, they're still roasting.

"none will escape the penalty for moral transgression and all have fallen short of God." Not necessarily. If, on your death bed, you are visited by a priest or preacher who administers last rites and garners your confession and embrace of Jesus the Christ, and you are baptized, you still get into heaven. "...all have fallen short of God." He made it so we would fall short. Otherwise, why would we need Him?

"As it stands apart from grace, none will escape judgement--no act will remain hidden." So? He gave us free will. Are we supposed to live in fear devaluing our life on Earth, or do we know that if we ask in the name of Jesus the Christ that all will be forgiven? Wouldn't it be more sane to ask how to make our lives matter rather than spend our lives worrying about what happens after we die? Do the right thing.
`
#2.1.1.2.1.1 Meta on 2009-01-09 10:27 (Reply)
Life not easy regardless.
#3 Bird Dog on 2009-01-08 20:29 (Reply)
Well, at least NeoNeo didn't bore us with any policy-type justification for her Gupta-gushing. I was afraid we'd be subjected to an anti-smoking diatribe or some preaching about the evils of Palin teen pregnancy. I never recovered from Jocelyn Elders talking about condoms.
#4 The Distributist (Link) on 2009-01-08 20:31 (Reply)
Please allow me to be shallow and in need of surgery. wow. Dr. Gupta is a hunk. I think I have a blister. A splinter?


As for reminding me of Jocelyn Elders...thanks a lot. You conjured up her visage on TV talking some straight talk - which I found refreshing but totally sphincter-cringing... along with the collective sphincters of half of America, I'm sure.
`
#4.1 Meta on 2009-01-08 21:21 (Reply)
I say we buy an ad on the other side of the bus that reads "There's probably no Globalistic Warmering, now stop worrying and enjoy your life".

Time wasted reviewing instant replays should count against time wasted with halftime shows. And that goes double for plays that "after further review" "stand as called".
#5 KRW on 2009-01-08 22:09 (Reply)
Agreed... And why is it that taking a snap and throwing the ball right into the ground to stop the clock is not considered intentional grounding but actually throwing it way over the heads of the receivers is?
#5.1 The Distributist (Link) on 2009-01-08 22:27 (Reply)
Re: Morris

Refundable tax credits are nothing more than a spending program called welfare.
#6 Barrett on 2009-01-08 22:27 (Reply)
How will people handle the end of the New York Times? Well, I'll drink to that. If the Times didn't insult half the people of this country, maybe it would have more paying subscribers. I'm always delighted when the Times finances are in the red. It so perfectly fits the color of their Hate America First politics.
#7 Agent Cooper on 2009-01-09 03:46 (Reply)
love the use of the word "probably"! What do they say to those that believe and enjoy their life?
#8 Dave J on 2009-01-09 09:22 (Reply)
Dust in the wind, darling. The value we give ourselves is dust in the wind. If we are material rather than spirit... But what is spirit?

Ethics fall apart in a society which is tearing itself apart and people are called upon to reason through their ethics. People are weak and their failings predictable.

Unimaginable? We, whether born of spirit or of flesh are destined to die. But seperation of God from God, Father from Son? Whether fact or fiction the notion is to inspire awe. Reality torn from reality is unimaginable.

""none will escape the penalty for moral transgression and all have fallen short of God." Not necessarily." Yes, necessarily. His stripes are payment for the Christian's sins. There is a consequence, and it should bring tears to a believer's eyes.

Free will? Yes. Ultimately though, no sin is permissable with God. Transgressive acts of will are merely paying for transgression with credit, for the wages of sin are always death.

The idea that all things are permissable, but not all things are prudent is true with or without God, but with God there are always consequences. If God does not exist the only road blocks are conscience and getting caught, and in this world it is easy to sear your conscience and all act on the idea of not getting caught--if no one sees us, we are not guilty if our conscience fails.
#9 Jephnol (Link) on 2009-01-09 11:47 (Reply)
Dust in the wind, darling. The value we give ourselves is dust in the wind. If we are material rather than spirit... But what is spirit?

*We are both material and spirit. Spirit is your worth, the love you hold for those close to you and for mankind, it is what guides you to think inwardly and of the beauty in this world, and it is what makes you do the right thing.

Ethics fall apart in a society which is tearing itself apart and people are called upon to reason through their ethics. People are weak and their failings predictable.

*Sweeping generalization. Not worthy of a response.

Unimaginable? We, whether born of spirit or of flesh are destined to die. But seperation of God from God, Father from Son? Whether fact or fiction the notion is to inspire awe. Reality torn from reality is unimaginable.

Reality torn from reality? Is that objective reality vs. solipsistic reality.

""none will escape the penalty for moral transgression and all have fallen short of God." Not necessarily." Yes, necessarily. His stripes are payment for the Christian's sins. There is a consequence, and it should bring tears to a believer's eyes.

 Are those Jesus' 'stripes'? And 'Christians' sins? Redemption is about Christianity and the consequence is joy. I'll save my tears for those God missed with His message.

Free will? Yes. Ultimately though, no sin is permissable with God. Transgressive acts of will are merely paying for transgression with credit, for the wages of sin are always death.

*The wage of life is death. Did God give us free will with the expectation that we'd not sin? He could, you know. He IS God, after all. Had he done so, Jesus would not have had to go through all that stuff.

The idea that all things are permissable, but not all things are prudent is true with or without God, but with God there are always consequences. If God does not exist the only road blocks are conscience and getting caught, and in this world it is easy to sear your conscience and all act on the idea of not getting caught--if no one sees us, we are not guilty if our conscience fails.

*How do you know there are always consequences with God? Can you think of instances where there are none? If so, what happens to those sinners?
`
`
#10 Meta on 2009-01-09 13:56 (Reply)
"Sweeping generalization. Not worthy of a response."

You mean like this: "Is that objective reality vs. solipsistic reality."

"Are those Jesus' 'stripes'? And 'Christians' sins? Redemption is about Christianity and the consequence is joy. I'll save my tears for those God missed with His message."

Yes, Christian, Jesus is your grace bitch. Sin more so grace should abound. Rub his nose in it.

Take the rest of this up with Dostoyevsky if your into it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uiYp8xKjLM
#10.1 Jephnol (Link) on 2009-01-09 23:48 (Reply)
Jep,
Way off topic here but I've seen you mention Dostoevsky a few times now and I take it you're a fan? Perhaps you can help me out with something...He was quoted by Jack Kerouac in Desolation Angels as saying something along the lines of "Give man his utopia and he'll destroy it with a grin" but I've never been able to find the source for this. What googling I've done always comes back to Kerouac. Do you know if he ever said/wrote it and if so what the context was. I don't know any Dostoevsky fans and for whatever reason this damn thing has been bugging me for years...sad but true.

And Maggie, if you're listening, wth is up with the cookie session timeouts?
#10.1.1 KRW on 2009-01-10 15:42 (Reply)
oops. Didn't mean to bold those lines. ?
`
#11 Meta on 2009-01-09 13:59 (Reply)
Religious moralism attempts to describe gateways to spiritual dimensions to the (temporarily) materially constrained. Since this is like three dimensional beings (space-time relative) preaching to two dimensional beings (linear), sin-bashing is probably the best way to go. (I’m so smart. That’s why I’m the commander.)


Anyways, speaking of materialism, the pragmatist ponders:

What would the poor do with tax money that the rich wouldn’t do?
 Do the poor not also employ people with their purchases?
Which enhances the domestic economy most – more for rich or more for poor - in the current context?
 If cash flow created employment is a wash (between rich and poor), and this thing is simply a numbers game (eg. 1 wealthy vs. 10 poor), can one wealthy dude impact overall consumer confidence more than ten poor dudes?
#12 commander clopfelter (Link) on 2009-01-09 14:13 (Reply)
Hey, your boldie bold controls and asterisk thingies displayers are broken! Or something.
#13 commander clopfelter (Link) on 2009-01-09 14:15 (Reply)

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