If every last bit of Arctic sea ice melted...

Quicksearch

Blog Administration

Open login screen

RSS Readers

Wednesday, December 17. 2008

If every last bit of Arctic sea ice melted...

Sea levels would drop. Here's why.�You can test it at home.

Addendum: Well, it's almost true. Slightly off with salt water.

Posted by Bird Dog in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 12:23 | Comments (16) | Trackback (1)

Trackbacks

Trackback specific URI for this entry

The Ice Caps Are Melting! So? What?
Living on the Edge with Tiny Tim! Same bullshit sandwich served up by Fat Al. So, Al, would all the Arctic ice melting raise the sea level? [Pointers via Moonbattery and Maggie's Farm. ]...

Weblog: AMERICAN DIGEST
Tracked: Dec 17, 20:13

Comments

Display comments as (Linear | Threaded)

There is no(none)evidence contrary to the following:
1. The first step in reducing our dependence on oil--anybody's oil--is to install solar panels on buildings when, where appropriate to exposure to sun, i.e. the great belly band of the US from most of California (Los Angeles, Sand Diego and environs) across all of Nevada, Arizona, the south. The Chinese now require that all new construction of high rises use solar panels to help provide the electricity to the building and perhaps to the grid. Thus our first step is to see to it that any high rise be required to install solar panels.

2. Second step--there is no (none) reason that Nevada has to be lit up the way it is! Force Nevada to reduce it's use of electricity and we might--just might save some beautiful mountain/plains corrdors of the Rocky Mountain and adjoining plains.

3. Why, oh why, I can hear the train a comin, coming down the line. Here come dem "contractors/developers". What you want me to install a solar panel on each house--damn that'll raise the cost $8,000! Of course it might help save what is rare and beautiful-but F--- you!

4. Ok, Ok, now that we have taken our heads out of the sand and looked at the scientific power of solar panels--let's see what we will have to do to get it on the books! It sure beats the heck out of corn fuel, and wind farms all over the beautiful places.

What is wrong with scientific reality in this case? I thought the new administration wants to be ecological--doesn't look like it with the appointments of Interior and Agriculture secretaries today---business as usual. Dig up that coal, build those wind farms--condense corporate profit, rather than spread about the small cost to each home owner, each building owner, etc. Where are those tree huggers when you need em?

#1 apple pie on 2008-12-17 13:14 (Reply)

I like your discussion regarding solar power...However, I have been hearing about the wonders of solar power since at least sixth grade circa 1974. I have to say that if it so great, why is it not here thirty four years later? I'm a big fan of nuclear power. I know that the US navy pioneered safe reliable nuclear power generation in the 1950s. I also know that countries like France and Japan have used our technology to their advantage by producing the majority of their electrical generation needs with nuclear power. We on the other hand have failed to develop our nuclear power beyond the 1970s level and are decades behind much of the rest of the world in achieving energy independance and yet we are still praying to the Sun god...Why? Doesn't it make sense to pursue all reasoable proven technologies?

#1.1 Scott Wiggins on 2008-12-17 13:33 (Reply)

What in the world has "reducing our dependence on oil" got to do with whether the sea rises or falls?

And just for the fun of it, calculate the total of the "approved" uses of energy in a very tall building (you go ahead and pick it for best advantage to your argument).

Now calculate the total amount of energy that could be generated by roof-top solar arrays. Assume the building is surrounded by buildings of equal or greater height.

Now explain how the building will operate during extended inclement weather.

#1.2 Larry Sheldon on 2008-12-17 14:14 (Reply)

It's feel-good fantasy.

#1.2.1 Bird Dog on 2008-12-17 14:30 (Reply)

Are there types of fantasy other than "feel good"?
I'm headed out to shovel global warming off the stoop
and grab some wood for Ol' Resolute.

#1.2.1.1 The Distributist on 2008-12-17 15:06 (Reply)

Yes there are. Global warmening is a scary fantasy.

#1.2.1.1.1 bd on 2008-12-17 15:47 (Reply)

We speaked about this over rum while the lights was out,
and temps was in the single digits;
I think I am more scared by a global freezening bout,
We can drink rum without ice widgets.

#1.2.1.1.1.1 The Distributist on 2008-12-17 16:01 (Reply)

In 1983/84.

A certain university I know was granted $1M to continue a research project. It was a solar dish collector. The engineer that conceived the idea and designed the project had been way out there in the boonies of West TX for 7 years. Each year had been given a little more money to expand the project. In the last year of the project it was set to go online to light up more than 2,000 homes. It was already the only source for several hundred. However, that research money looked too good the academic dean, who fired the head of engineering,who had refused to fire the engineer and close down the project. Long story short: academic dean got the money, the engineer was run out of town, and the project was closed down. When I called with the Sierra club to ask for help the response was this: "your talking about Texas ma'm this is oil country. I don't think you should expect them to support solar energy--do you?" We feel lucky they just gave us 35 acres for a bird sanctuary". I hope that sheds some light on your question regarding why it has taken so long to get solar energy onto the table!

#2 faculty wife on 2008-12-17 18:51 (Reply)

In 1945, the Manhattan project had produced enough weapons grade uranium for one test bomb and two bombs destined to be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. After the war, then Captain Hyman Rickover and a team of engineers from GE and the US Navy set about finding a way to tap the enormous energy released in nuclear fission. Eight years later the first nuclear powered submarine sailed. Now, something like twenty percent of the world's energy needs are delivered from nuclear power. On the other hand, solar is delivering hundreths of a percent of electrical needs even though tens of billions have been invested over the last four decades. We need to back the right horse and stop making ourselves hostage to oil exporters who play with our lives and livlihood at their whim.

#2.1 Scott Wiggins on 2008-12-18 00:31 (Reply)

Global warming is a scam, but the comment about melting ice caps not rising sea levels is wrong, and not just for the salt water/fresh water distinction. Much of the ice at the poles is not floating, it is resting on land. Not the north pole obviously, but Greenland and Antarctica. If all of that were to melt it would raise sea levels dozens of feet. Good thing man doesn't cause climate change and in fact we're starting to cool.

#3 Captain Obviousness on 2008-12-17 19:18 (Reply)

Captain Obviousness is obviously right. The melting ice in the Arctic sea is a problem (in theory) not because it raises the sea level, but because it reduces albedo (reflectivity), which will cause the darker sea to warm up even faster. The sea level problem involves the melting of the massive amount of ice on the northern islands, particularly Greenland.

#3.1 TigerHawk (Link) on 2008-12-17 22:36 (Reply)

Excuse me--please provide the reference for the hundreds of millions of R&D spent on solar.

#4 apple pie on 2008-12-18 03:23 (Reply)

I said tens of billions...I'm not going to do the google search for you but you can start with the Carter administration and go all the way to the legion of public and private companies around the world who working hard to show some sort of result that will qualify for more government money and contracts.

#4.1 Scott Wiggins on 2008-12-19 13:23 (Reply)

The point was about sea ice, not land ice, I guess.

#5 Bird Dog on 2008-12-18 06:47 (Reply)

Canada would see one hell of a land rush.

Now if all the land ice in Antarctica melted.

#6 Alan Kellogg (Link) on 2008-12-18 13:41 (Reply)

To the Chicken Littles in our Government ... why don't you and the other mokes who are so hot for non-workable substitutes for oil, natural gas, and nuclear power take a look at the past history of these "substitutes." Right now, every unworkable substitute has its adherents because those folks want to acquire more big government control over America and its citizens. Obama said during his campaign that he planned to bankrupt America's coal companies. Believe him. He'll try to do it. Down here in Texas, about 50% of our electrical generating facilities are powered by coal. I don't know what the percentage is in the rest of the states, but I suspect it is substantial.

Oil works. Natural gas works, even though Nancy Pelosi, not the best-informed, most intelligent of our Legislators, says it's a clean, non-fossil fuel. Most of all, nuclear power works and is used by most of the civilized European nations for power generation. France gets 70% of its electricity from nuclear power. England probably the same.

I don't object to various idealists wasting their personal time trying to generate electricity with wind power, solar power, or water power. But to try to con the ordinary, practical American citizen into believing that these methods of powering our nation have a prayer of being as effective and dependable and practical as oil, natural gas and nuclear power generating plants is foolishness verging on evil.

As far as the global warming scam is concerned, I'm with Captain Obviousness. It's a scam, powered by government agencies who want the American people to back them in beggaring our country with ruinously expensive programs to "control" global warming --- which Mother Nature does a very efficient job of controlling all on her own. Between Al Gore and our latest Congress, we may all go down the tubes financially before they're brought under control.

Marianne

#7 Marianne Matthews on 2008-12-18 21:21 (Reply)

Add Comment

Name
Email	(Your e-mail will not show in your comment)
Homepage
In reply to
Comment	By commenting on this site you agree to the site rules listed here. Email addresses will not be displayed and will only be used for email notifications. Quick reference guide: [i] italics [/i], [b] bold [/b], [u] underline [/u], [url] (web address) [/url]. More tips here. Enclosing asterisks marks text as bold (word), underscore are made via _word_. E-Mail addresses will not be displayed and will only be used for E-Mail notifications. To prevent automated Bots from commentspamming, please enter the string you see in the image below in the appropriate input box. Your comment will only be submitted if the strings match. Please ensure that your browser supports and accepts cookies, or your comment cannot be verified correctly. Enter the string from the spam-prevention image above: BBCode format allowed
	Remember Information? Subscribe to this entry

Maggie's Farm

Our Recent Essays Behind the Front Page

Categories

Quicksearch

Links

Blog Administration

RSS Readers

Wednesday, December 17. 2008

If every last bit of Arctic sea ice melted...