We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
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Wednesday, January 9. 2008
Mitt Romney is a damned good, capable man but, for whatever reasons, he did not catch fire. I'd say he's out in this kindergarten game of musical chairs. I'd like to see him somewhere in the government - but far away from the subject of medical insurance.
And I'd say John McCain, who I like as a person but many of whose views I strongly disagree with, is back in the game.
I yearn for the old days of the smoke-filled rooms. But at least I can still ignite a Cuban stogie up here in my own little library, while hoping for the death of Fidel.
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Seeing as how Romney actually leads in the delegate count right now, I think it might be a tad early to be counting him out.
Mitt is definitely in the lead. While he hasn't "won" a primary he was still #2 in both Primaries/Caucases. No other Republican candidate can say that.
Then again, if the news media were to grill Obama on his connections to his Muslim heritage as they have with Romney's Mormon heritage it get quite interesting around here.
Oh ... never mind we couldn't play fair now could we. That wouldn't be nice.
Mitt Romney is the best in the field for the Republicans. He's proving that quite nicely.
Damn MorMitt has a prior loyalty which endangers USA's security interests.
Presidential oath of office would be subjugated by his prior Brighamite oath and it's corporate interests.
Leag -- unless you have some info i don't have, i have to characterize that comment as "horseshit".
You should be better than that, what with JFK having had to face the exact same slur re Catholicism in 1960.
Look it up -- JFK would be "working for the Pope, not the People".
I well may have information that y'all might not and so will shovel out that pile.
Brighamite oath is something you might ferret out for yourself but I haven't confidence y'all will.
It is not suppose to have become available to us gentiles under pain of death and property confiscation but it has.
JFK's religion has no such oath and equating loyalties of the two men is a red herring.
Doubtless there are documents in Mormonism which can be used ag/ a Morman's holding authority positions.
But you are wrong that the same documents do not exist in Catholicism.
Why, until Pope John said different, only a Catholic could go to heaven, in the doctrine.
If that cannot be used to say that non-Catholics are considered by Catholics to be sub-human (or 'untermenschen'), then i'm a monkey's uncle, all due respect to a fine, and admirable, religion, which has, as all do, controversial--in the earthly multi-tongued realm-- doctrinal issues.
Try to stay on topic, buddy.
The topic is oaths and efficacies, thereof not ducuments.
Raising Catholic documents and JFK and your own wrong take concerning same is red herring.
Brighamite oath supercedes any oath MorMitt might take as a government official.
''It is not suppose to have become available to us gentiles under pain of death and property confiscation but it has''
Sure you don't mean the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"? The 'Blood Libel' used since the Middle Ages to pillage the Jews whenever some king wanted their property?
Brighamite oath by which Mormitt and his god joined substance for LDS kingdom and swore obedience to LDS prophet.
and actually, it's not a red herring -- tho calling it a red herring "is" a red herring.
well, i guess Mass. & the Olympics & Bing Capital all were just damn lucky the prophet didn't happen to instruct his zombie Mitt to destroy the organizations rather than making them swimmingly successful and prosperous.
Okay, y'all might like to discuss Mormitt's dubious successes making Mass. swimmingly successful and prosperous.
When did he do that before or after he was governor?
Perhaps, it's a secret.
Try looking at the state balance sheet before and after gov Mitt. Sheesh -- is there a better place to start an evaluation process?
Till I can get to those sheets, buddy.
The tax burden of Masscitzens increased.
He was successful at mandating health insurance with penalties for noncompliance.
He was succesful at getting civil unions legalized.
Don't want to go to fast but his looks like a successful democrat record.
MorMitt's credo "I just want to do something." gets alot of crap done alright.
Religious bigotry is always so refreshing when it's encountered. I'm of the Mormon faith you deride, Leag, and this nation - and our Constitution - is held to be divinely inspired by my religion.
Go preach your hatred and falsehoods where it would be more appreciated... say a skinhead or Nazi-related site.
i don't know enough about the faith to argue it. I just know what my eyes ears and senses tell me, and that is pretty much what what Mitt says about it -- that it's good for folks to have a faith. The cult talk seems a smear -- it doesn't hold up in the empirical reality.
If'n y'all cain't agrue merits of Mormonism what empirical reality exonerates it from designation as a cult.
What in fact it, is and strikingly similar to cult of Islam.
Swearing oath of allegiance to prohet who has authority over members life and property is one similarity.
Acknowledeges Judeo/Christian revelations but claims new angelic revelation supercedes, another.
Establishes earthly temple by ""divine" ordinance, another.
Don't want to go to fast for y'all.
Chew on that empirical evidence, awhile.
Mormitt's secret oath is relevant when judging what effect it has upon oath of US President.
But y'all haven't addressed it.
Brigamite oath supecedes, unless he is a liar.
Electing a swearing liar isn't in the interest of USA.
Is he a member of the Trilateral Commission? The Bilderbergers ? The Masons ? What about all them Masons -- how many presidents HAVE we had who belonged to organizations that have codes of conduct ? forty, maybe ? This is a foolish and embarrassing line of enquiry, Leag. Foolish, embarrassing, and just plain dumb. and strictly political, too. And if i may so say, dirty.
for crying out loud, ALL the Mormons are fully invested in America -- what are you saying, this is a move by Utah to take over Idaho, then Wyoming, then DER VORLD ? Good gravy -- i'm fast losing faith in you, Leag.
what you're saying is, Mitt is a Mormon manchurian candidate who has evil in mind for USA.
the logic of that thought is, you yourself will have to vote for the Dem candidate -- whatever the hell marxist secret agenda is one million times more likely than that mitt is the mormom manchurian -- marxism having an actual rather than dubiously imaginary record of evil intent for USA -- and THAT, leag, makes you, in terms of asset/liability for the USA, a "liability". AKA "a dangerous fool".
In my book, dangerous fools are liars seeking US Presidency and those who vote for'em.
MorMitt's cult following is not unlike Pauline's.
That y'all cringe when your candidate is critiqued and cast fish about wholesale, is amusing.
whole argument collapses on bad premise -- i'd just as soon have any of the three Mitt, Fred, Rudy. In fact Rudy's tax plan revealed yest makes him edge forward to top again for me. to defend a guy against religious smearing is a far cry from being a cult follower.
When did you defend him?
I missed it, other than the, gee, him nice guy.
MorMitt has an oath to his god and prophet which supercedes any presidential oath and endangers national security.
when did i defend him except as nice guy? when have you attacked him except as demon?
Demonization is yourn, lad, not mine.
I simply avered his oath to his god superceded his oath of presidency, God forbid.
We are in unique American process to nominate a Rebuplican candidate for the Presidency of the United States of America.
MorMitt has a previous loyalty sanctified by oath.
That is no demonization nevertheless,demons have flown at it like flies on stink.
None of the MorMittites have addressed the *OATH*.
well how 'bout you, leag -- what if the chinee were landing on long beach and the pope told you not to resist ? how can i be sure you wouldn't obey the pope ? hell, you better be kept out of politics -- you too dangerous.
Buddy, Pope requires no oath but something altogether free and public, same as did Jesus, baptism and confirmation done in public.
Members of Christ's church are not sworn to loyalty under penalty of death and confiscation of wive's and progeny and property.
Try to address the secret oath MorMitt swore, what is prejudicial and endangers national security.
but you're rationalizing and equivocating, leag. the essence is still the same -- a religious authority which may run counter to the civil authority. it's an ancient dichotomy -- Jesus's 'render unto Caesar' was all about as you well know.
The point is, nobody's loyalty can be predicted with 100% certainty. human hearts change in a trice and secretly.
try to look for clues as to your fears. for example, re your Mormom law which you've repeated a half-dozen times in support of your fears -- the pain of death and confiscation of property. Why have i never heard of case one of anyone filing any murder or wrongful death or fraud or theft charges by oath-breakers against the Mormon church?
Are there no -- have there never been any -- oath-breakers? if so, then it is a very benign oath indeed--and one which offers no evidence of being anything to fear.
Or are oath breakers -- centuries of 'em -- afeared to rely on the law and the police against the church? now that would be to descend into deep, deep nut territory, i hope hope hope you can see.
As i said -- when your senses are failing ya, look for clues. remember the fundamental boundaries of that empirical reality that reasonable people agree we live inside of.
And back to rationalization: the Pope is God's representative on Earth. As such he is doctrinally infallible.
Now you tell me I should fear something (the LDS oath) that is orders of magnitude less encompassing and inclusive and thoroughly mind-boggling as a Catholic's relationship with civil citizenship under God thru the Pope?
Yet, i do not fear the Pope -- in fact, tho a protestant, I greatly admire Benedict, and loved JPII with all my heart. Why, when I am excluded from their brief? Because I'm not a religious bigot, that's why.
Buddy, you must have been sleepin when jurisdictional disputes arose.
Nevertheless, you mischaracterize the concern raised in regards to oaths and my alert.
It is not a call to fear.
So chill out lil pumkin.
It's an alert to the snake in the grass seeking your cookies.
Don't get scared, but be smart.
Grab the lil liar, give'm a sweet acknowleging stroke and throw him into the road.
You are still not addressing MorMitt's oath while pussyfootin' about catholics and masons and any other damn fool redherring but it.
Benign oath's is close as y'all get.
By y'all's logic Salman Rushdie wasn.t cursed and fitwaded with death sentence, cause him ain't dead and ain't filed suit against MorMitt's spiritual cousins.
My daughter saw him a couple weeks ago and him still be blashemein' heaven and hell and maybe, you think he'd be sound choice for Canadian prime minister.
After y'all's platitude about reasonable folks, finally, y'all address MorMitt's oath.
Though y'all don't know what it is ya aver it is,
"orders of magnitude less encompassing and inclusive and thoroughly mind-boggling as a Catholic's relationship with civil citizenship under God".
Your bigotry is manifest, poor buddy.
Same as MorMitt's danger to national security.
now you're cherry-picking your cherry pickings. i go out of my way to draw a parallel with religious intolerance, and from that, from my effort to imagine a parallel circumstance of bigotry, i myself become a bigot?
real argument needs more than adept cherry-picking and twisting the cherrypicks into pretzel accusations of ignoring the oath problem, when all you yourself have said about the oath problem is that you say there is an oath problem.
Again, let's see a link to some police reports, some trial cases, where the oath has been invoked. LDS is going on two hundred years old, so there must be a body of evidence of this oath's effects. Where is it?
And Rushdie is a classic red herring, o master of accusing others of red herrings.
MorMitt's oath is subject.
Links are wholesale available @ Google.
Till he violates it I reckon you'll have to wait for the remediatin, lad.
hahaha --wot a freakin' joke, "links available @ google" -- okay, here's an equally hard-workin rebuttal:
"rebuttals available @ google"
but seriously folks -- google the oath -- and go read what Storm Front thinks? No thanks.
How 'bout any respectable, known thinkers and/or commentators and/or political, social, cultural, academic leaders and/or opinion makers? Got any? Got one ?
As I said after y'all's pile of shit statement which y'all think was a rebuttal to the subject;
I well may have information that y'all might not and so will shovel out that pile.
Brighamite oath is something you might ferret out for yourself but I haven't confidence y'all will.
Get yerself a girl, churl.
I'm going to get some pie.
churl -- sounds like you getting a little churlish yourself there, o master of the oath-knowers. watch out for Mormons on yer pie trip -- BOO!
i don't like rudy's social issues, but i do believe his promise re judge appointments -- where the rubber meets the road anyways. I like your guy Fred on everything he says but want to back the GOP candidate regardless. If Fred's the guy, I'm all for him 100%. I resent your trying to cast legit Mitt supporters as cult acolytes. can't you see how foul play that is ?
and, you're cherry-picking faster than a cherrypicker on the Mass. record. what's the matter with looking at both sides of a ledger ? That is, you know, how objective truths are arrived at.
Ask Arnold what a debt-soaked & poor quality balance sheet does to the taxpayers. Mitt came in with what is about to crash california's bond ratings -- and he fixed it as painlessly as anyone would have thought possible. he did it with a panoply of rather bold & creative executive actions including hundreds of actual vetos & control by threat of even more.
yet all you can talk about is some dreary far-fetched medieval village torch-and-hayfork gossip about cults. Bah. go to your room and grow up.
Most of that stuff was done before MorMitt's lyin'hide ever oathed to Masscitizen's and not by him.
Y'all talkin' bout that over steroided Kennediite?
His call to fame was calling California representatives Girlymen.
He backed down on that, some tuff guy.
Like MorMitt, he's democrat in Rebublican cloth.
Like MorMitt in Mass, Ahnold in Calif is phoney as a two dollar bill.
yep, all the phoney did was get born poor in Austria, and immigrate to the USA and self-make himself Mr. Universe, a billionaire, an in-law of a hyper-powerful dynasty which he then ran against to become the two-term governor of the most significant population and economic power in the union.
Kiss his ass in hero worship, if'n that's y'all's favor.
Don't expect me to shake your hand, though.
"Born poor in Austria, and immigrate to the USA and self-make himself Mr. Universe, a billionaire, an in-law of a hyper-powerful dynasty" didn't qualify him for governorship of the most properous state in USA, which it was long before his daddy left the better part of him in Austria.
Da ya like da quads or da pects?
In-law of a hyper-powerful dynasty whose political power put him office is their puppet.
Stinky, buddy, stinky.
oh, jeez --why am i wasting my time --- i admire a major life effort of a guy who by demonstrating on the world stage the truth and reality of America's message to the world -- the American Dream that is -- and i get back "hero worship" and a slobbering "did you like the quads or the pecs?"
Yep, stinky is right alright.
''...didn't qualify him for governorship''
Right -- it was all them bitches and girlymen voters out in californy what did dat. you should go whip them into shape, leag. cast out the demons and sort out all them conspirators and perverts and cultists.
Rudebeggar, might qualify as a canadidate if USA were disarmed, like NYC.
His claim to fame is he told Saudi prince to shove it.
USA doesn't need a fuhrer though Krauts voted themselves one.
Y'all haven't presented anything in support of MorMitt's Brighamite oath which defends against charge of superceding loyalty, thereof.
that's to defend the ''when did you stop beating your wife'' question.
instead why don't we address the real topic here: religious bigotry.
Whadat wife beatin' snarf, buddy?
Anyhoo, the subject is oaths but if'n y'all like let's switch out at da bend and discuss religious bigotry.
Y'all are an expert, serv'it up.
the idea is that, to address some sorts of questions is to validate them as worthy of discussion. it's a well-known category, google "wife-beating question" -- i didn't mean you, Leag -- anyway for all i know the bitch deserved it.
Religious bigotry is not my topic but yours -- all i did was name it.
What bitch did you name?
"Cuse me, sissy said slow is Jean's fault.
Me don't know whodat's, either.
well we finally agree on something -- you don't know whodats, nor do you know your ass from a hole in the ground, and probably not shit from shinola neither.
yep. like Bigfoot and Atlantis and little gray aliens who kidnap humans but only the nut cases -- that LDS oath has never been invoked, never acted out, never created any death or property transfer, never made a footprint or an unfaked photo or a reliable sighting, never made a ripple anywhere that any rational adult has felt -- yet mmm boy, i is 'spose to be SORELY terrified o' it!
Why, it could come and git me in my sleep!
Who says it won't?
How can i be sure I'm safe?
I'm in agony here!
Somebody DO something!
Ahnold's on his way with a cigar for little girlymen.
Hold on just a little while longer
Help is on it's way
oh hell -- now i'm a girlyman -- guess you win the debate!
What debate you lowered it to nonsense with horseshit, cowboy.
i agree -- it's gone to shit. let me end my part of it with a hearty "fuck you, leag".
well -- i try not to talk that way -- so i retract that -- but really, watch out for dat religious bigotry -- or at least don't associate yourself with the church or with fred while engaging in it. just do it on the sly, as a hobby.
Dat's alright, buddy.
Girls like me, too.
I'm not than kinda guy, though.
Bishop thinks I should go to mass.
I certainly, don't get paid for undressing wolves but enjoy it well.
well that's just wonderful, leag --glad you have a good opinion of yourself -- i can hardly contain my elation.
A total of 2380 Republican delegates will represent the 50 states in convention.
Candidate with 1191 will be the the nominee.
If no one has that or more, a brockered convention will ensue, me thinks.
Trying to predict the future in this political cycle is turning out to be impossible. Besides the weird turns of events we've seen in the campaigns and the upsets in the last two primaries international events add another wildcard to the mix. What if that near incident with the Iranian speedboats had turned hostile? It was damn close. Bush is in the ME. Anything can happen.
So I am out of the prognostication business. I am hoping against hope that Fred makes a big move in SC as he is the one true conservative we can all rally around. Nothing will suprise me at this point.
''...I can still ignite a Cuban stogie....''
Are ANY of you littoral yankees NOT in the contraband business ?
Buddy, I'm starting to smell a "Rat." A "Desert-type" Rat, if you will. Like, maybe from the Phoenix area?
Ha -- yep, i can see some similar dogged determination to drive it in the ground and break it off -- izzat whut you mean?
rufus, wonder what happened to the comments section over @ Kudlow's ? I checked in a while back to see if it was still troll-infested and the comments were skidood, gone.
Buddy, Kudlow's comment section got downright incoherent. I never heard so much blathering from people that had absolutely no clue. I don't blame him for shutting it down.
I was just thinking that one of these commenters has a very similar style to a commenter we're familiar with.
Opinions aren't necessarily familiar, but the terse, combative writing certainly is.
yeh --i see what you mean -- and true. Re Kudlow's site, it's easy enough to scroll past all those embarrassingly idiotic posters, but there is definitely an overload point at which the site just exudes unpleasantness and a body tends to skip it completely. Shame, tho -- good stuff over there in the comments if ya could make yourself sift.
Yeah, I kinda miss it. Especially Sharp's take on things. He did good research.
sharp was who i had in mind -- and some cat named ''rufus'' too.
I hear that "Rufus" Cat fell in a vat of ethanol and drank hisself biofuels silly:)