Maggie's Farm

Thanks, Barrister. Elegant and concise. Clear thought on a hot, humid, miserable day--what a gift!

Buddy, so admire the Amish, but also loved Harrison Ford in "The Witness" when he says "but it's my way" (or whatever) and proceeds to whack the bad guy....tho there's also a great scene when dozens of unarmed farmers gather, summoned across the fields by plucky kid's bell ringing, and intimidate the bad guy with their numbers and their righteousness.

Used to teach religion to kids who grew up in neighborhods infested by gangs and would show them that film (they cheered the loudest for the unarmed farmers, and would tell stories of living in fear in their apartments unable to go out and play because of the gun battles in the streets below). Then I would tell them about the Quakers in the early North American colonies and have them debate the ethics of pacifism versus bearing arms in defense of your neighbors and yourself. Would tell them how my ancestors hated the Quakers and thought they were bad neighbors as you could be being scalped and they wouldn't come to your aid because of their religious beliefs. But also how my ancestors were self-righteous Puritan !@#$%oles who tyrannized over others. I could discuss things pretty freely because it was the pre=ultra PC era and because the kids knew I also had Indian blood.

On balance, the kids and I concluded that there were many times when you could risk your own life for your own principles (for example if you thought guns were instruments of the devil, as the Amish do), but that if the lives of others were at stake, you might have to live with an uneasy conscience and first defend the vulnerable from the wicked. By force, if necessary. Thus, go to war to stop Hitler.

My own logic is probably easy to assail , but when discussing Augustinian writings on lying (for example, a tyrant asks you if you have someone hidden in their house and you know they will be killed if found, do you lie and say they are not there?) and what it does to the soul with my students, I used to say "First, save life, protect the young and vulnerable. Live with your own guilt about how you had to do it. Because it is more obedient to God to save others than to zealously guard the purity of your own soul. "

But maybe I was wrong? It was not quite the ends justifies the means, but it tended dangerously towards making one vulnerable to lots of "just this once" sins that would eventually (Augustine argued) spoil the soul. As if we were milk that sours if not chilled. I tended to have little patience with people who wouldn't get their hands dirty if someone was in trouble. People who let warlords butcher and torture villagers. I still mortify my own kids by telling people I see abusing their kids in public to STOP IT THIS INSTANT OR I CALL 911.

Aaargh, all that blather because of the word Amish...blame it on heat addling my brain. Time for some iced water.

Buddy, love
but am always defeated by Dostoievsky. I say, save the baby.every time.

Each time I went into labor I would remind dubious husband that any trouble and decisions between me or kid, save kid.

Not that our secular culture would consider the novelist's dilemma hard to resolve: We murder millions of babies for the convenience of one messed up woman at a time..or we say "better a quick death than the slow murder by abuse and neglect of an unwanted child." Betcha the babies would say "I'll take my chances on overcoming abuse and neglect--just don't murder me because you have no faith in my mother's or my capacity to overcome adversity or a badly timed beginning!

Wonder what Dost. wd make of that?!