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Sunday, March 3. 2024Updating an Old Bible Post 2011
Sorry, been extremely busy and traveling this past week. Many visits to my doctors and updates on starting my chemo and radiation tonight and tomorrow. Hoping for some extensions from benefits. The reason I am adding this was an hour with my Pastor. I'll write more about that meeting. However, we spoke about 1 Samuel 8, politics (and my specific reason for leaving masses due to political statements often misguided due to not speaking about 1 Samuel 8, and he admitted he was behind on it) and the fact I've written versions of this 3 times. Once in college for a class that earned me zero grades. Once in grad school which led to a shift in a former leftist set of professors who often misstated Biblical versions of political views. And the third was in 2011 here on Maggie's. Enjoy and feel free to comment. It will be my 5th writing (since I sent this and some updates) to all my friends recently).
The first political systems, from an institutional standpoint, were monarchies. Monarchs either considered themselves gods, chosen by 'the gods', or "Chosen by God". In almost every sense, the political system was tied somehow to the spiritual beliefs of the nation. During a college course on Democracy, my professor spent the better part of an hour and a half discussing the implications of this concept. He pointed out that God Himself chose Israel's first king, and approved of their choosing a king. I immediately raised my hand and asked "But God didn't want Israel to have a king, did He? He considered Himself their king and allowed them to have Judges which acted as their spiritual and moral guides on earth." The professor disagreed, saying God had set up the rules for the choosing of the Israelite king, thereby approving of the system and setting the standard for all kings that followed to be "Chosen by God". Again, I responded that God did this grudgingly, and only because of the obstinate nature of the Israelites. The professor, sensing I was unwilling to give this up, suggested I write a single page paper about the topic. It would have no bearing on my grade. But I felt it was worth the effort. Twelve years of Catholic schooling meant I still had a Bible among the possessions I carried with me to college. Finding the passages in question was simple. I knew the Book of Samuel was the place to start looking, and sure enough it wasn't long before I found 1 Samuel 8:1-22. This described the worries faced by Israel as Samuel aged and his sons proved they were corrupt. However, to fully understand the mindset of the Israelites, I had to read beyond the opening. Clearly, Israel was concerned about more than just an aging Samuel and his sons. What else was going on? It seems Israel faced many threats, too. Samuel was not just a wise judge. He was an active leader, as well. He was instrumental in battle, as well as in maintaining social order. He was communicating directly with God. Losing Samuel didn't just mean a corrupt social contract, it meant potential devastation at the hands of enemies. The Israelites worried they would lose everything and, being human, they made demands on God. They wanted a king, they wanted to be like other nations. Samuel spoke with God. God opposed this, pointing out that by wanting a king, Israel was rejecting Him. God did not stop there. God was very clear about exactly what having a king would mean. As much as it seemed a good idea to the people of Israel, God painted a picture that mirrors many common protests we hear today. The basic premise was this: A king will make his nation slaves to his will. God went further and warned them when the day came that they realized the king had made them slaves, He would not hear their cries. The people, fearing the internal problems they foresaw and the external threats they feared, did not care to listen. They wanted to be like other nations no matter what God said. So God gave in, and let them have their king. And at this point it was assumed, by virtually every king which followed, that he was "Chosen by God". One could say God supported anarchy, and I more or less made this final point, since the opening classes on Democracy considered alternative forms of political systems. Our opening classes required reading Wolff's In Defense of Anarchism. However, I was also clear to point out God was not fully sold on anarchy. After all, Samuel was a leader of sorts. God felt that having just mediators, rather than coercive ruling influences, could provide the support and management a nation needed. It was the people themselves who couldn't see the wisdom of God's desires. Humans have always spent time trying to seek God's will in guiding our leaders. God was reluctant to allow a leader other than Himself, though. Our nature is to mix the flesh with the spiritual. God wished to avoid this in the management of society, recognizing the corrupt force of politics, and His stance played out even as Jesus made his way through Israel. Today, Democracy may be the worst form of government except for all the others. But we seek to find some form of balance to avoid the pitfalls which God made clear would happen with an absolute ruler. We still have some of these problems, even with a 'good' system of governance. Which probably says more about God's wisdom than ours.
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Thank you for the post. Reading the last link about worst form of government except for all others, it references the common man with a wife and family. But one political side doesn't want to see that at all. So where do we go then? If possible can the troll take today off.
Wishing you good luck with the chemo and medical treatments. I know who that was and he spent time claiming more lies and nonsense. He is crude, gross, and not as knowable as he claimed.
I found many other sites online requesting having him removed. Several choose to leave his uselessness around. My own wife and I often disagree on politics. It is fine. She’s not always as interested in aligning with my independent and libertarian views resulting from my understanding of God’s view (few people care or do in any political party). I like many people, though, so I put up with it mostly. Bulldog - disagreeing with one's spouse over matters political is not uncommon. Mum was wont to say that there were a fair few times when she and Dad went to vote and cancelled each other's ballots by voting in opposite directions. And they had friends who had a corner lot; it was not uncommon to see signs for different parties on the two sides.
But then, this was Canada, and they were all adults and respected each other's choices. Bulldog - disagreeing with one's spouse over matters political is not uncommon. Mum was wont to say that there were a fair few times when she and Dad went to vote and cancelled each other's ballots by voting in opposite directions. And they had friends who had a corner lot; it was not uncommon to see signs for different parties on the two sides.
But then, this was Canada, and they were all adults and respected each other's choices. That being said, I agree with your analysis of God's reaction to the Israelis wanting a king. God was not pleased, but relented and allowed them to choose a king. BTW, have you read the trilogy by the late Robert Neill on the restoration of the Crown in England (?1760, 1761), the subsequent rule by Charles II, and the overthrow of James II (the Glorious Revolution)? The books are "Crown and Mitre", "The Golden Days", and "Lilibulero". They are intersting because the author has chosen to show how religion and secular interests intertwined. I have not read those - but they are certainly on the list at some point.
I don't really look at my wife's differences as an issue. There are relatively few differences. A few, certainly. Usually it's based on knowledge and lack of study. She never studied the things I had - political science, economics, and even (in business) the legal background I developed while working closely with my legal teams (who eventually allowed me to handle the management of writing contracts and potentially digging into legal contract issues which could wind up in courts but really never do because if that happens it's because someone is out for something rather than finding business solutions - it's why I oppose and continue to point out the massive lies and flaws of Democrats vs Trump). No, she hasn't seen these things and often won't dig into the depth. She sticks to whatever the media says. Most of it is just BS. Btw. I do know who it is. Very well.
I avoid naming and identifying as corporations reject it and have reasons to avoid this. Stupid reasons. I once offered to be friendly if the “name” was identified publicly for full identification for personal reasons. I offered to meet and even possibly be friendly. He lied and became a massive annoyance in that regard and still shows up as a massive liar and annoyance. Were it more open and honest (mine has been several times on here and in public), things might alter. The lack of honesty grows constantly. In democracy, the people believe they are gods.
Church and state are not separate in each person, and so cannot be separated when people live in society. We either serve God or some version of evil. Perhaps a monarchy is better for personifying the enemy and his nature. One leader is easier to recognize and resist. Democracy is an insurgency for Satan. I agree 100% and it was the major flaw in the 3 issues this was raised in my political science courses in the early 1980s.
One flaw people tend to make (usually priests, flawful politicians and flawed professors) is that God ONLY referred to Kings and the flawness of monarchies and WHY DEMOCRACY IS FLAWLESS. This literally is somethig people like the idiot troll once implied to me. Flawed idiocy is normal in commentary responses like this from the troll who claims being a "professor" as if there is no flawlessness in that realm. 1 Samuel 8 did mention mainly the king - but expanded the flawed nature of human rulers and how they become centrally driven to flaw "citizens" so that's easily understood as an issue which was common during Biblical development and writing. Democracy was virtually unknown (in reality not at all) since it was unused. But the commentary by God and Samuel were about the flawness of ruling leaders and active rulers of various kinds. This kind of commentary comes up, actually, at least 4 times in the Bible, if not more than 4 times. Several examples include Solomon (who was slightly better and improved for a variety of reasons in line with belief and use of God, Joseph, and Caesar - through Jesus). There are a few others, somewhat tangential, about at least wealthier and more beneficial individuals and how they properly engage religion, God's teaching and how to utilize it more effectively in society clearly and beneficially - ignoring governments/kings in a variety of fashions. Why these things are ignored, or misread or discussed (usually by politicians or believers in how "good" democratic leaders or parties supposedly are - like our idiot troll) is unknown and completely proven to me that most people pay more attention to humans and their flaws. It is why I've never believed politicians much at all, considered most evil in general, self-interested mostly (such as Biden completely despite claiming to be Catholic - and he is truly the most evilly driven one except maybe Pelosi or any of the Democrat females who are obviously rather evil), or any particular governmental claims of "benefitting" people. I had a rather intriguing conversation with two of my doctors and my pastor recently about Obama's speech to Congress in the 2010 years (year I've forgotten) over Cancer and much he misled and/or lied about cancer and how to improve it as a problem. Improvements since then exist - almost entirely WITHOUT government involvement of any kind (except a few examples of politicians getting wealthier or pharmaceuticals getting wealthier). Obama made several statements in that speech which, prior to my current diagnosis I have written about) made claims I knew then, and I know SPECIFICALLY NOW are simply wrong and misleading. So I enjoy 1 Samuel 8 as a great leader on how to think more openly about government. Somehow the troll and his evil behavior is rather constant. I think you are correct in your analysis of I Samuel.
All cultures are a mix of their religion and secular interests. But become corrupt the further from their religion/moral code they become. There are no atheistic societies/cultures which there should be if religion was just a social construct. Religion is part of Human's Nature. There is a human propensity/desire for the Philosopher King and Utopia. A residual in the human soul of the Garden of Eden. Thank you. I have shared this a lot in the past, and a lot more recently. I have had only one person argue over it and claim it "false" - one of my former political course professors. He agreed with the concept and idea but focused more on "kings" rather than expanding it to democracy and other forms of government development - all of which he admitted are horribly flawed, but democracy being the "least poorly off" than kings and certain authoritarian leaderships (ignoring democracies are often driven by authoritarianism).
Usually the reason for his opposition (and a few who discussed this with me before altering) was based on poor religious understanding, and supports for particular political party memberships they felt was "too difficult to question" due to true beliefs. All were later proven wrong. 1 Samuel 8 has done much to help many leave parties for at least independence - and many to join me in Libertarianism. |