We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
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Wednesday, January 6. 2021
"Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it’s motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure."
Jefferson would have shrugged off today, much as he shrugged off Shay's Rebellion and (more or less) supported the Whiskey Rebellion (later repealing that stupid tax). He also supported the French Revolution, not for what happened, but for its original principles.
People can't always be well informed - and certainly with nonsense information spewing from not only the 'mainstream' media but also from myriad other 'sources' like Qanon - we need more than ever to look back through history and put things in perspective both ideologically and historically. Few people remember 1954 and Puerto Rican nationalists shooting up Congress. Today's events may have been wrong and lawless, but they are not at all unusual or necessarily misguided in the larger scheme of US history.
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In some ways we have become too civilized and complacent. Bad actors believe that they can get away with anything. The tree of liberty may need a little blood from our current tyrants.
Jefferson was a funny guy: "The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them."
Does anyone think that Washington D.C. would ever deal honestly with "the people"? Hell no. There are millions of government employees, blacks, old people, and military personnel who want that check to arrive every month. And they don't care what it takes to keep that money rolling-in. The last thing that they want to talk about is "facts." We've got sixty million people, all of whom want a thirty year paid-vacation. And they only have one thing to say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFrag8ll85w
So the first thing that we need to do is get rid of that ridiculous term "First Responders". They should be called "First Freeloaders". We could easily have a volunteer fire department, a volunteer national guard, volunteer police, and volunteer libraries. That's just a start. We've got millions of blacks living in free apartments for no reason. Millions of rich people getting free Medicare for no reason. Millions of police getting huge pensions for no reason. Millions of Mexicans getting free school for no reason. And all that money is supposed to come out of people's paychecks.
Thomas Jefferson obviously never had to set things straight the hard way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-mYfiTmYpk
What we are faced with today is how to live in america, not the usa, and learn to pay our rulers and submit to their rule. We have no voice, congress made that clear today. With no voice, we have no freedom. I am so ashamed to tell my son those ideals, that beautiful dream of the usa, we destroyed.
Comparing Jefferson’s thoughts about rebellions in the past misses the point (and I think you really know that). To rebel about a a policy or a tax is one thing but rebelling about a fundamental tenant of our government is quite different. A policy or tax can be rectified at the next election if there is enough agreement. Fraudulent elections cannot. If this isn’t fixed soon, trust in our basic institutions will only continue to wither. An obviously fraudulent election begets another - and that’s where we appear to be today. If the midterms don’t increase confidence in the process, this country is in serious trouble. Jefferson’s view about the tree of liberty and the blood of patriots and tyrants may be operative. Maybe the Battle of Athens show us what is required to root out election fraud.
I don't think it misses the point at all.
If the elections aren't addressed and "fixed" (heh) soon, then I do believe yesterday's little soiree will be a mere appetizer to the main course.
A little rebellion like yesterday, in a town that rarely sees riots because politicians love keeping little people at a distance, is a nice reminder to not screw with the people you are supposed to serve.
If they distance themselves further, as I suspect they will, the people WILL get more pissed off.
If they do the right thing and remedy these situations, address them, and let the rioters off the hook (because, after all, comparatively speaking yesterday was barely a blip compared to last summer), then we may navigate this effectively.
One of the tenents of a democratic society is that while people are not required to agree on policy, they are more or less required to agree on process. The other is that while policy can and maybe should be reflective of the whims of the people, there should be a fundamentally conservative (small "c") approach to changing the process.
What I see happening is one side of the argument asserting that the nature of the process is itself a policy, and should be subject to complete dismantling and replacement.
Bulldog: That was an appropriate quote for this dark morning, but there's a difference between the previous rebellions you mentioned and what we face today. The other two were about single local issues, but the current rebellion is about how we choose our leaders, nationwide. Without free elections, America will descend into dictatorship as Leonard Peikoff predicted forty years ago. In the future, who among us will even bother to vote, knowing that the gesture is totally meaningless because the outcome of the election was pre-determined. Voting has become nothing more than the sanction of the victim.
The Whiskey Rebellion was a national tax with a local 'event'. So there is some comparison. Shays' was purely local but with national implications.
That said, I agree that the election needs to be addressed (see above) and that this is a mere appetizer if it isn't.
The reality is I suspect things will get worse now. Not because of the Right. But because of the Left. Biden's response yesterday was tepid, weak and emboldening for the Left since he gave no similar commentary over the summer. Basically he (and the media) have chosen which riots are "good" and which are "bad".
Yesterday's events BARELY qualify as a riot, too. I mean - no buildings burned. No livelihoods lost. No businesses closed.
Congress shut down for a few hours then the vote was certified.
Hell...technically speaking, in our current lockdown what was ANYONE doing in the Capitol ANYWAY! Talk about a superspreader event...(tongue solidly in cheek).
Point is Jefferson's words are meaningful because he saw REAL rebellion. We have yet to see that yet. I suspect we will very soon. So it's more warning and preparedness than it is comparative.
The problem with "fixing" elections (as I see it) is that the problems that need fixing exist only in areas of the Country where elected officials don't want them fixed. So is South Carolina going to invade Georgia and string up their Governor and Secretary of State? I don't think so. So how is the rest of the Country going to "fix" GA, PA, WI, MN, MI, NV, IL and, sadly, AZ? The list of things that need fixing is obvious: outlawing mail-in ballots, ballot harvesting, requiring Voter ID, outlawing Dominion voting machines and other internet-connected machines, removing Soros-funded AGs and Secretaries of State from office, and deleting Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. With the exception of the last, those are all state issues so I don't see any legal way for people of the honest states to force the people in the corrupt states to comply.
I was delighted to have been introduced to Jefferson's Quote. Thank you.
"Today's events may have been wrong and lawless"
But they were not. You mindlessly parrot the propaganda under the pretense of historical context. Shame on you.