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Sunday, May 31. 2020
This morning, watching the news, I simply told my son "never join a mob." The police can't win in a situation like this. If they do nothing and people get hurt, businesses and homes are destroyed. If they do something, a video will call out the 'bad cops'.
There's nothing to be gained in a mob. You get to be part of a crowd, and sure that's 'fun'. You're in with the 'in crowd'. But when it all goes south, you stand a chance of getting arrested or worse.
I hope we can all agree what happened to George Floyd, and many others like him, was unnecessary and requires action. I hope we can all agree peaceful protests of this kind of thing are useful and necessary as part of our nation's traditions. I'm sure we can all agree riots and destruction are counterproductive and unnecessary. They do not represent a revolutionary movement.
I've seen many people making comparisons of the looting and riots to the Boston Tea Party. This is just nonsense. While it's true that John Hancock and Samuel Adams were happy to see the tea tossed because it kept prices on their smuggled tea high, many others opposed the Tea Party, with Washington and Franklin calling for restitution to the East India Company. So criticism of destruction also has a long history in our fine nation.
That said, the East India Company existed by mandate of the Crown, and was an arm of the government. While it was 'private' in construct, even Parliament recognized it was both a political and economic entity. Taxes were only part of the way the Crown benefited from the East India Company. So any attack on the tea was an attack on the government, by default. Burning or looting Target stores are not an attack on the US government or local governments. The looting had nothing to do with depriving the government of anything, nor is it a statement about government. It's just violence and destruction for the sake of violence and destruction.
Taking the comparison further, the Boston Tea Party was not an uncontrolled riot. It was, by most accounts, generally orderly. Armed British ships did not make a move to intervene. The participants went so far as to sweep the decks clean afterward. This was not mob behavior. This is the kind of protest one should feel comfortable joining.
After being cooped up for 2 and half months, any spark was likely to result in an overreaction. Criminal elements love a protest, particularly one they can turn into a riot. Protests require strong leaders, soft guidance, and respect for order. But none of this exists with the 'protesters' in our current situation. There is no Martin Luther King here.
George Floyd should not be dead. His murderers should be arrested. The reaction is still wrong and cannot be justified. Each is a separate crime in itself. The riots should not be linked to Floyd's death, they should be linked to violent thugs seeking to cause problems.
Don't join a mob.
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just look at the difference between the Floyd mobs and the lockdown protest mobs. civil protest verses destroy society protests
And the difference in DeBlasio's reaction to the two: https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/george-floyd-protests-okay-amid-coronavirus-gathering-ban-de-blasio/?utm_source=facebook_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site+buttons&utm_campaign=site+buttons&fbclid=IwAR1y5Nic5EMs6_RUKvucxP5AxQNoYC3XVtzoaCCndt17hFwgIZchrbO60cI
I think we should be clear: Chauvin is CHARGED with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter. It will be up to a jury to find him guilty or not. It is the mob mindset which pronounces guilt without presumption of innocence or trial. In this instance, IMO, it would be best to ask, "What would Marshal Dillon do with Chauvin in the Dodge City jail?"
I think a jury would have good reason not to convict based on the information available now.
The suspect resisted arrest, the cop detained the suspect using standard methods of restraint, and the death was found to be due to other, aggravating concerns, not strangulation or asphyxiation.
The major issues that will swing the jury the other way would be whether the arrest was justified, the time the officer spent on his neck, remaining on his neck after he was non-responsive, complaints of breathing problems, the scope of resistance, etc.
There is probably enough evidence to convict, but I think (in normal times) a good defense attorney should be able to get an acquittal. The media circus and riots add an additional layer of complexity.
Or maybe the state continues the “courts can’t function during a pandemic” mindset and he wins on speedy trial.
New Synonym: Protest : Riot
Here's two headlines from WSBTV in Atlanta:
"Target temporarily closing 175 stores, including 2 Buckhead locations, due to ongoing protests"
"Gov. Brian Kemp talks 1-on-1 with Channel 2 about state’s response to protests in metro Atlanta"
As you say, Bulldog, mobs are destructive. Floyd's death is only an excuse, it's not reason or a cause. I suspect that a significant number of the "peaceful" protesters are not satisfied with Chauvin's arrest and charges and what they really want is for him to be lynched. Their calls for "justice" ring hollow since the process of justice is proceeding. Justice takes time, unfortunately.
There is a a meme on the left that Trump is responsible because he has "set a tone" of racial conflict with some of the things he's implied. I think it's the other way around. It's the left that destroys and does not build. For example, the Boy Scouts. The left has attacked the values until it eventually succumbed and adopted some of them to their detriment. The left could have formed their own program with their values but that was too much work and taken too long.
The left has no interest in building and no respect for what has already been built so destruction comes easy for them.
The Floyd protests have been hijacked by Antifa and BLM. They are responsible for almost all the violence. It should be obvious that the Antifa/BLM riots are being coordinated nationally. The US finally has its own Baader-Meinhof-Gruppe (Red Army Faction). And the goal is the same, a totalitarian socialist dictatorship. Floyd could not matter less to these people.
It is interesting that Antifa consists largely, if not entirely, of middle class and upper middle class young white people, all with some sort of college connection. This is more an oppressor group than an oppressed group. It is also largely a college movement.
i remember the violence of the late 60s and 70s. and as a former member of a US military counterterrorism unit, i can say with some authority that you are exactly right. the left-wing groups of the 70s and 80s arose because the children of the WW2 generation in Germany, Italy, Japan, etc., refused to adopt the values of their parents and saw Marism-Leninism as the only recourse. Demonstrations turned to protests turned to terrorist organizations like the RAF, Red Brigades, Direct Action, Japanese Red Army, etc. Our teachers and professors have convinced many in the milineal generation that left-wing facism is the answer and fun too. The good news is that the left-wing groups of the 80s were defeated. Antifa will be defeated too, but a lot of blood will be spilled first. President Trump has done the right thing designating Antifa a terrorist group. Now federal authorities can penetrate and dismantle this group. In the meantime, some heads need to be put on pikes.
Those in power, teachers, politicians, money sources, whomever, who promote and encourage antifa activities need to be quickly brought to justice for fomenting revolution. If it comes to "heads on pikes" so be it.
Those out on the street need to be shown the error of their ways with immediate response in kind. That will take concerned citizen volunteers with intent to teach, as forcefully as necessary short of killing anyone.
Nice article/commentary Bulldog, full of common sense and presented modestly. I will not join a mob.
Floyd's killers HAVE been arrested. It should have happened AT THAT TIME, and the arresting officers should have been the other cops present,
The others haven't been arrested.
Agreed it should have happened immediately, but I'm curious why the others are still not charged. They've been fired. That may be all that happens, but who knows at this point?
This isn't too different a situation from Eric Garner's. Both Garner and Floyd were engaged in behaviors that were criminal, but not exceedingly so. Neither deserved the treatment they were receiving. The outcomes were the result of multiple factors - but the rough treatment in both cases played a role.
But this same exact thing happened in Dallas in 2016. No riots. In fact, I don’t recall hearing about this at all.
Well, [i]almost[\i] same exact thing.
Yes, resisting arrest definitely played a role.
So a violent career criminal dies while resisting arrest and you have already decided the officers are murderers? due process is way overrated nowadays I guess.
I called them murderers because he was murdered. Due process will take place, and is required.
His 'career' as a criminal seems to have been in the past - at any rate his 'career' doesn't come into play here. He was arrested for presumably passing a counterfeit $20 bill. There is no video of him resisting arrest, as the officers claim occurred. All video up to this point shows him being compliant with the officers.
If he was violent and resisted, his death certainly wouldn't be murder. The evidence of this violent resistance is non-existent.
That said, going back to his 'career' - he'd turned his life around by all accounts. He was earning a living. Passing $20 counterfeit? Maybe he was, but that's hardly a reason for kneeling on a person's head and depriving them of oxygen.
You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that this was justified in any way. Eric Garner's death was very similar to this, and just as horrific.
If you think it's easy to sit back and just call Chauvin a murderer, I'd say it must be just as easy to sit back and say Floyd was a career criminal who somehow deserved to be killed. And he WAS killed. In my book, that's murder. The courts will have their say. But the grand jury chose not to pursue a case against the officer there...and it was pretty clear that was, at the very least, manslaughter.
You can split hairs over whether it was murder or manslaughter. Either one is tragic and uncalled for.
I'm disappointed in you, Bulldog. Floyd DID resist violently. Have you not read the Complaint
Officers Kueng and Lane stood Mr. Floyd up and attempted to walk Mr. Floyd to their squad car (MPD 320)It's becoming clear (to me, anyway), that Floyd had a heart attack based on his pre-existing cardiac disease and/or the drugs he was (probably) on. The tox report isn't out yet, but will be "interesting".
at 8:14 p.m. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic.
MPD Officers Derek Chauvin (the defendant) and Tou Thoa then arrived in a separate squad car.
The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side.
Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying
he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than
While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. The
defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and
The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd
went to the ground face down and still handcuffed.
Kueng held Mr. Floyd’s back and Lane held his legs. The
defendant placed his left knee in the area of Mr. Floyd’s head and neck.
Mr. Floyd said, “I can’t breathe”multiple times and repeatedly said, “Mama” and “please,” as well. The defendant and the other two officers stayed in their positions.
George Floyd did not die from asphyxiation.
Preliminary findings from a Tuesday autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found “no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxiation or strangulation
. . . “Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,” said the complaint from the Hennepin County Attorney. “The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.”
The combination. So the behavior of the officers played a role.
Be disappointed all you want. I did read the complaint - but there is no evidence of a VIOLENT resistance, certainly none which required the response that was applied.
I'm sticking with my point of view. The police did overreact in a manner that was inconsistent with the situation.
I'll add that where Floyd may have been a 'career' criminal, Chauvin was a career asshole, given HIS record.
There is a big difference between murder and manslaughter, turned his life around, really? again you call the officers murderers when we don't know how he died and reading both the charge sheet and the prelim coroners report there is quite a bit more to this but your mind seems made up while I will await the outcome of the legal process....welcome to the mob.
I'm not out protesting, rioting or otherwise engaging in activist behavior.
What I've seen in the complaint (and I had read it prior to writing this) is a police officer's POV. That's hardly exculpatory information. It should be noted does not indicate a violent resistance which required the level of restraint employed. What is the purpose of a knee on the head/neck when someone can't breathe and isn't being violent and has been compliant?
As for the "difference" between murder and manslaughter - 3rd degree murder is not that different from manslaughter. Look it up. It's the unlawful killing of a person without design in the perpetration of a felony. The other charge of manslaughter is the killing of a person without malice aforethought.
I'll let the process play out, and I have no doubt Chauvin's lawyers will find a way to have him released, despite his long record.
I'm a supporter of the police. But even the police know there are assholes like this guy in their midst.
A most interesting piece of Floyds lawyer Ben Crump can be read at the Last Refuge (CTH) and contains information on Floyds "workplace". Vellie interesting!!
When I watch what is unfloding it makes me wonder if we'd all be better off under a monarchy. Many, maybe most, would always be better off. But under a monarchy they could have barred the doors of that targert and torched it. They could post the rioters on pikes in the streets as an example of what happens to rioters.
What's going on in the streets right now has nothing to do with George Floyd. Period. These people are the same as in the streets of the French Revolution. I would not be surprised at all if they start beheading priests and children.
At least the Frenchmen of 1789 were hungry and mistreated.
"... our nation's traditions."
Those niggers are not my people and don't belong in my nation.
This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.~Abraham Lincoln 1st inaugural address
Oh please, one thing that Abraham Lincoln is not remembered for is his enthusiasm for civil rights. Lincoln fought a war to raise taxes on the South, and to eliminate their political representation. Lincoln was a communist stooge, and was proud of it. In a famous quote he said "I would never give an order to another person, or take one."