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Saturday, December 29. 2018
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The strictly instrumental use of hell finally boils down to a remark quoted by Voltaire: “My good friend, I no more believe in the eternity of hell than yourself; but recollect that it may be no bad thing, perhaps, for your servant, your tailor, and your lawyer to believe in it.”
Which reminds us of another Voltaire quote.
What did Voltaire mean when he said that "if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him"?
another quote by Voltaire,
La nôtre [religion] est sans contredit la plus ridicule, la plus absurde, et la plus sanguinaire qui ait jamais infecté le monde.
"Ours [i.e., the Christian religion] is assuredly the most ridiculous, the most absurd and the most bloody religion which has ever infected this world. Your Majesty will do the human race an eternal service by extirpating this infamous superstition, I do not say among the rabble, who are not worthy of being enlightened and who are apt for every yoke; I say among honest people, among men who think, among those who wish to think. … My one regret in dying is that I cannot aid you in this noble enterprise, the finest and most respectable which the human mind can point out." No wonder he did not believe in Hell, he liked Hinduism.
I’ll bet that a lot of people are surprised to find themselves in hell.
Do you actually believe in Hell? That place of eternal flame and suffering. Or do you understand it was always a fiction invented by the priests to keep the people flocking to their churches and of course to keep the money and influence flowing. This is the history of religion; a fiction invented by those who would benefit from it and told convincingly to a humanity that essentially wants to believe in something after death and something that explains the inexplicable mysteries of life. It is comforting and compelling and it works, that is the various religions and preachers of religion are doing well.
By extension of logic and reality there is no heaven either. Another fiction part of the carrot and stick that religion offers to keep you coming back and giving them money and power over you.
Same back at you! Show me the proof. Have you seen hell? Is it somewhere deep in the bowels of the earth? or perhaps on another planet. Seriously do you believe in hell???
Notwithstanding contemporary scientific* revelations of the permanence of the spirit or soul, it's the mark of the small mind to demand proofs for deduced truths. Or did you want to give the mind's simple sensory input primacy over the mind's essential work?
Put another way, in a sense the best proof - if that's the word - of the eternal divine is that a purportedly accidental universe somehow randomly produced every rational, logical, supportable aspect of it. Evolution itself thereby proves G-d, even as much of an utter botch as the search for a Grand Unified Accident has turned out to be.
That makes the atheist a manifestation of a self-blind paradox: Insisting something cannot exist while being a loud product of it. Or, a necessary component of denial of the very construct that also produced the highest truths, among them transcendence.
*as with "evolution", a detestable word, too often the contemporary manifestation of smug certainty that this time, in this place, a human has determined an Absolute. Real science is the polar opposite which makes "scientific" nothing more than a casual observation that someone is working on something.
Under that theory everything anyone says must be true and to deny it is stupid. Thank you for clarifying religion for us. "Believe what I say or you are stupid". That should convert a lot of the unfaithful.
Are you simply clueless to how mind boggling senseless your argument is?
Given your reputation for bullshit I certainly wouldn't bother challenging you to prove a negative - that's closer to the demand you made on Rusty (and how mind-bogglingly senseless it is to expect someone else to pry one's eyelids open for them).
Granted, your expertise around here seems to run to graphically pornographic depictions of past conquests and other equally senseless tales and propositions, but even you should be able to see that this particular random association of matter we inhabit - assuming that isn't somehow inherently preposterous - eventually asks itself how it created the utterly rational, logical, and fair G-d that only the mind is equipped to grapple with.
Or are those principles generally associated with insanity? Even an ignorant, loud-mouthed prick is generally on about something roughly related to right and wrong while he's off making a name for himself; it's a little bit of a stretch to call the spiritual thinker a pathological liar while he's simply following the breadcrumbs.
Interesting how those crumbs came to be and how clearly they show the trail on the road less traveled. Almost by design and grace, you could presume.
Well, some minds grapple with higher principle and transcendence like that.
Others become defensively incensed at the prospect even before the question forms itself to assault their tender sensibilities, although I admit the rest of us with functional consciences and faculties don't really find that surprising...
"your expertise around here seems to run to graphically pornographic depictions of past conquests"
I can only assume this is in regard to the post that asked for enlightenment and discussion of women's sexuality. As I recall that is exactly what I did.
It is also interesting that you choose to call them conquests. Presumably you don't think women have any sexuality. But in fact they do because ironically I am terminally shy and every woman I ever dated and the two I married picked me and initiated both the dating and the sex. So I was in fact Their conquests. As for the stories I have more and I could have been more forthcoming/graphic.
I am tempted to say that you failed to prove or substantiate the existence of god, but in truth that didn't seem to be your goal. Rather you simply spilled your bile and soiled your pants. This is a serious discussion/question. If you are unable to contribute to it perhaps you should abstain from trying. It is colorful when you do try and it presents a target rich environment but little to no enlightenment.
Speaking of random, now you're just playing to the crowd, Anon, hiding behind entry-level internet argle bargle.
Thing is, nobody has to prove transcendence because it's self evident, which relates to the first point you just had to instinctively take a swing at, the one central to a "serious discussion/question" like this, (the illiterate slash and all).
And speaking of target, small minds consistently miss them while banging on, hoping that in all that darkness maybe they'll get lucky. (Pro tip: if you're really lucky one day it'll occur to you why the Flying Spaghetti Monster was a false construct right off.)
Whoops; get lucky. And there I go setting you off all over again. I'm told the only way to grasp female sexuality is through the Penthouse letters in a hedonistic Christian comment thread...
I find very little profit in imagining heaven and hell. Are these places literally as described in various books of the Bible? (A house with many rooms and a lake of fire respectively.) Perhaps or perhaps those are visuals to give us a sense of what it will be like. All I know is hell is a place of eternal separation from God where no one has purpose or love. Heaven is eternal union with God where our purpose will be clear and fulfilled in love. And eternity is a word we use to explain the lack of time. What we will perceive when we reside outside of time and space is a mystery that will be (and has been) revealed to all.
"accidental universe somehow randomly produced"
I pondered that some 45 years ago as I was sitting in a meadow high on Mount Whitney. There was a beautiful stream, lush green grass, small bushes and a hundred or so large round boulders perfect for sitting on and pondering this randomly created scenery. Almost everything we see around us is random and yet beautiful as though it took some thought to create. I later tiled my bathroom and used the random penny method to place the contrasting tiles. You take a couple dozen pennies and throw them in the air and they randomly fall and that is where you place the tiny black tiles in a field of white tiles.
What makes a record breaking distance runner? A random selection of genes. The same is true for random genius or random beauty. I wish I was a record breaking beautiful genius distance runner but I randomly got "average".
And yet people who see randomness everyday all around us and often see beauty or genius in it yet it is just random and we seek some higher cause or superstition. So you can deny that randomness exists and in fact succeeds relentlessly in producing good and bad results it is still never the less true.
It all relates to what you elect to call random and what you decide to call order. G-d has no known compunction to force anything on you as you choose which, while reality has all apparent proclivities to confront you with the magical in the most distant places you stumble into.
It's almost like the whole thing is a gift and you get to decide how to regard the favor.
i have lived an extraordinarily blessed life. I have no doubts of Heaven or God. I received a gift of revelation at my first communion in 1963 and special and rare chrisms of the Holy Spirit in 2011 and 2012.
I do know I will lead survivors of a soon to come, great and terrible chastisement back to the faith of our Lord Jesus and I will be known by a different name. I do not know the time or if this “Great Event” destroys 2/3 of the worlds population, although I am highly suspicious.
People:dismiss me at your peril for God will honor your choice.
God has been very busy but since you have the inside track as him please why only a hundred or so boulders and why not 200? After all if a higher power was in charge and it wasn't simply random gravity and Plate tectonics responsible for the random distribution in this beautiful meadow he didn't do that great a job. Maybe, if god is real, he is too busy, you know damning people who don't worship him and stuff, that he doesn't have time for the little mundane details and they actually are "random".
But the real question is if god is so powerful to have created heaven and earth (not to mention arrange a 100 boulders on Mt Whitney), AND if you believe that it is logical that all of this wasn't created "randomly"; then you must ask, "who created god?" Someone/thing even wiser and more powerful would have had to create god. But then, who created that mega-god? And sooner or later you are back to the same proposition that at some point back in the dim history there was nothing but matter and it randomly came together in a way that created life. But since you said that isn't true what do you do? Go mad? Worship all of the mega gods (without an proof of their existence )? Or does doubt finally creep into that locked mind of yours...
Welcome to the Projection Olympics, Bob. You and Anon make a nice mixed double.
As uncertain as you are of things it must be nice to be so certain of those you completely misunderstand, huh?
So that's it? You have nothing? You believe in hell and anyone who dares question that can, go to hell! But you have nothing else but inane insults.
You're so dim you haven't even read the last line in the remark you're knee-jerking to. Man, you're obtuse. I never said what I believe in, IdiotBob, should that even matter, but the notion that nothing exists until materially proved is preposterous on its face.
That's what I got, if you'd care to read it, and it's a whale of a lot more than nothing.
OH! I get it now! You don't believe in what you are arguing about you ONLY believe in arguing.
I'm afraid you're much too dim to get it, IdiotBob, which also applies in spades to this arguing thing you're on about now.
Back you go to the Projection Olympics.
There is a part of me that knows you are right. I was an idiot to respond to your post as you are a mindless troll.