College for all?

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Wednesday, February 15. 2012

Kevin Carey in The Wilson Quarterly makes the case for college - or at least some college - for all. Naturally, I think that is insane, and for more reasons than I have time to list.

A rigorous high school degree can still provide all that is needed to continue one's education on one's own, if wanted; all that is needed to be a good citizen, and all that is needed to perform 90% of the work out there.

We all know that a college degree can mean a great deal, or next to nothing - same as a high school degree.

A couple more education links:

Are Colleges Ripping Us Off? Half of all college students make no learning gains in their first two years, and 36 percent show no significant intellectual growth even after four years.

McArdle: Envisioning a Post-Campus America

Posted by The Barrister in Education, Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects, Our Essays at 13:14 | Comments (10) | Trackbacks (0)

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Oh, I agree COMPLETELY!

Every American child must complete two years of calculus and two semisters of statistics, chemistry, physics, and intros to quantum mechanics/relativity. A year of the Federalist Papers as US government, and a year EACH of micro and macro economics.

Plus, they need to complete a 200 page thesis on an approved topic of their choice, in standard grammatical English, and be able to recite the preamble to the US Constitution.

That's before we let any citizen VOTE.

But differential equations can be optional. I'm so easy!

#1 Whitehall on 2012-02-15 14:59 (Reply)

Every American child must complete two years of calculus and two semisters of statistics, chemistry, physics, and intros to quantum mechanics/relativity.

That's the best laugh I've had all day - hilarious.

#2 Tom Francis on 2012-02-15 15:03 (Reply)

A rigorous high school degree can still provide all that is needed to continue one's education on one's own,

Odd you should mention that. I was talking to one of the local tradesmen yesterday and he was telling me that he literally can't find anybody willing to Apprentice, then move through Journeyman and eventually Master under his guidance. He said he could get people to try it but when they found out it actually required real work (he's a Master Plumber/Electrician), they quit. He's got a high school education (technical school) and his wife handles the business end after taking some business and accounting courses at the local community college. He has a nice spread down here, a beautiful boat (32' Yellowfin w/twin Evinrude 250 E-Tecs) and makes good money, but he could make more only he can't find anybody to work for him or with him.

Seems to me we've placed too much emphasis on college as the be all and end all to gainful employment and personal wealth. I can say this about myself - I often wish that I had taken my skills at welding and machining metal more seriously instead of taking the educational course I did. I did ok as an engineer, but I can't help but think that I could have done much better as an exotic metals welder and machinist. :>)

#3 Tom Francis on 2012-02-15 15:12 (Reply)

Unless you have the aptitude to get a licensed professional degree {doctor of medcine/engineering/nursing/cpa} don't go to college. Take one of many online tests to find out where your interests lie and go to a technical school and get real training. If then you have a good paying job and still want a degree then go at night and pay as you go. What auto mechanics right out of an 18 month program are paid is eye opening and tech training in one feild can get you jobs in other feilds. Lastly I know I'm preaching to the righteous but college has become indoctrination centers for the left....

#4 KJones on 2012-02-15 15:49 (Reply)

Tom ... It's fascinating to me that vocational schools in this country are held in such relatively low esteem, compared to "a college education," which, it seems to me is much more irrelevant to the real life of the middle class, at least unless it involves engineering and technical skills. If you don't agree, just ask the first ten college students you meet what a "journeyman" is. I'll hazard a guess that few will know.

Europeans have much more respect for craftsman and craft training. When I discovered our vocational schools in Milwaukee, after I had gotten my college degree, I was charmed. Here, in well organized assemblages of various skills, was the training necessary to become an apprentice, then a "journeyman" and finally, a master of a trade, whether it was plumbing, electricity, construction work, chef's training, auto repair or whatever other skillset can be taught.

Marianne

Marianne

#5 Marianne Matthews on 2012-02-15 17:09 (Reply)

I have two relatives who graduated from college at the wrong time (i.e. in the middle of a depression) and turned to their summer job training to start businesses. Today both earn far more than their kin who have MBAs and other advanced degrees. A college degree may afford one contacts in a chosen field, but much can be learned sweating it out on the job.

Per the Wilson report, it's the "Wilson" Quarterly, a liberal-leaning publication. Thanks to Sputnik, my 7 - 12 educators pushed me into every math and science course conceivable. Then when I went to college, I got some real leftists who only wanted to tout themselves and indoctrinate me. I'll never forget the Econ 101 bluebook final where, as an example, I was asked to "discuss how Keynesian economics policies rescued the United States from The Great Depression." Pardon me? Rescued? Egads!

Thanks to having held various jobs from age twelve on, I was sufficiently aware that following Keynes would bankrupt any business but the government (that had access to The Fed and taxpayers). I spent the hour writing about how the country recovered in spite of Keynes and almost flunked the course for "being uppity."

#6 jma on 2012-02-15 18:19 (Reply)

Have colleges and high schools really sunk that low?

I went to a Catholic high school, and concluded:
a) that two of the four years were wasted, there was a lot of time spent in class not really learning anything, or being challenged;
b) that I was exposed to so much, that if I had been a better student (actually really studying and learning the materials at home, and striving for excellence always), I could have tested out of my first year of college.

Yet when I got to Enormous State U, and through it, my knowledge base, problem-solving, and ability to understand the world, increased at least a factor of ten over high school. And once again, the only thing holding me back from competing with a MIT or Stanford degree was my willingness to subordinate to academics all my other activitities and distractions.

Good grief, if people are going to college and learning nothing, we're creating an Idiocracy. It's frightening to think that our Education system has collapsed that far.

#7 John A. Fleming on 2012-02-15 18:51 (Reply)

There was a discussion several weeks ago (it may have been here) about the advantages of a "merit badge" approach to job qualifications. Using the certification process developed in the computer world for specific software or hardware expertise, education could be broken up into specific skill sets that would be marketable on a resume. This concept scares the heck out of the brick institutions of education because it can be inexpensive and delivered in diverse locations (including the internet).
One concept that seems to be completely foreign to the world of academia (except in certain technical and engineering curriculums) is the idea of market value for your skills. There is this mindset that because I have such and such advanced degree I should be paid X dollars. The idea that the world only needs a limited number of experts in Ancient Chinese archeology or other esoteric advanced degree does not seem to enter into the thinking process. Much of the OWS crowd seems to be caught in this fallacy. "I went to college, and now the world owes me a high paying job, that I like, that has weekends off, that gives me a nice office in a climate controlled building....and so on." What happened to the concept of working at the salary the world will pay for your skills?

#8 ScottJ on 2012-02-15 21:08 (Reply)

Honestly, I'm not sure our public school system has really made the case for even high school for all yet.

#9 Kevin in WI on 2012-02-15 23:15 (Reply)

One day, halfway thru first grade, Peter was told to put away his book and color the picture. At the time, he was reading up on early tribes of Peru. (He takes after his father.) We were assured by the Academically Gifte teacher that it would be severly unfair to the other children if Peter were allowed to get AG services in 1st grade. He would just have to wait til 3rd grade like the rest of the kids. We kept him home, let him read what he wanted, called ourselves a home school and as soon as he was old enough, sent him to the local community college which was all we could afford. Since he was 13, I had to go and sit in class with him. As a jr now, at a 'real' college, he spends most of his day tutoring. And practicing for the cycling team. College, for him, is a social thing. But we can afford it, it's not there're any jobs out there so why not let him go ride his bike, learn some social skills and generally hang out for a semester? He doesn't fit any model out there, he's so much the odd duck that he has just learned to embrace it. Astronomical IQ, with the intelligence to back it up but, thx to public education being as crappy as it is, companies want a diploma to back up the brains. Judging by some of the freshmen he tutors, I can understand why.

#10 middleagedhousewife on 2012-02-16 16:23 (Reply)

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Wednesday, February 15. 2012

College for all?