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Thursday, May 15. 2014

Immanence vs. Transcendence

Fancy theological words for fairly simple ideas.


As I understand it, the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) view God as both immanent and transcendent. I do, I suppose. However, I know little to nothing about theology.


I fell into this subject while thinking about the word numinous (from Latin numen - a spirit which inhabits a thing or place). My Pastor referred to "numinous experiences," by which I believe he meant moments in which God's presence is strongly felt. I like the word very much.

Posted by The Barrister in Our Essays, Religion, The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 13:35 | Comments (8) | Trackbacks (0)

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This is also the point of the Sabbath - which comes from the Hebrew word for "sit" or "dwell (together)".

I'm not much for mysticism, but... Kabbalists speak of a light that "fills the (material) vessels, but is not contained by them."
#1 Ben-David on 2010-05-15 14:36 (Reply)
"numinous" brings up another mysterious word, "noesis".

a numinous experience is noetic.

'Noesis' is EZ to recall becuse it sounds like 'know' and the greek meaning IS a certain sort of the infinitive 'to know' --as i per my limitations loosley grasp it, it refers to a knowing framed by faith that comes to a person through the mind (as Spinoza saw it, the place from whence manifests the actual holy spirit) and then erom there may become of mind and body both, IOW may not remain abstract but become the dimensional.

IOW a "knowing through understanding" --as in, a sensing of light or presence (per Ben-David and Barrister) in a noetic mind which is experiencing noesis.

--anyhoo, a good definition may be, well on reread apparently is, beyond my grasp but it is a word, and it do hover around words such as numinous and numinescence.
#2 buddy larsen on 2010-05-15 18:26 (Reply)
Spinoza is the guy who answers many a seeker's biggest question, the BIG question of agnosticism, the seemingly occam's razorlike "god is all in your mind".

Spinoza says yes of course, were else on earth would He be? and furthermore, that when one thinks of god, that is a manifestation of presence; what else could it be, what is it that's trying to to be felt, why else would the thought be in your mind, why else would your mind spend itself trying to transcend itself?

yeh, could be a tautology --there's always another frame.
#3 buddy larsen on 2010-05-15 19:09 (Reply)
Theological use of numinous is from Rudolph Otto, "Das Heilige. . . " (The Idea of The Holy) - early 20th century. A worthy read. Kantian philosophy uses a similar term, but there is conflicting debate if that was on Otto's radar . . .
#4 Cal Greer on 2010-05-15 22:25 (Reply)
"...a light that 'fills the (material) vessels, but is not contained by them.'" Wonderful, Ben-David.

God is both transcendent and immanent, don't you think? The Lord is Holy, separate and apart, and yet engaged in His creation. We as His creatures are to love Him with all of our heart, soul and mind and this is how we perceive Him, through noesis, noema and in our very being. We perceive God through relationship with Him. Abba, Father.
#5 Jephnol (Link) on 2010-05-15 23:54 (Reply)
Being a Theist at heart and a Methodist at church, I followed the link and then the link to the "What religion?" quiz. The quiz options are bogus -- false choices in many cases, or left out obvious choices a person might select. I suggest skipping that part.
#6 Geoff Brown on 2010-05-17 11:05 (Reply)
You could say that God is immanent BECAUSE transcendent, in that he necessarily spills out, over, and into everything and beyond. Thus, panentheism is how God rolls (i.e., neither pantheism nor deism).
#7 Gagdad Bob (Link) on 2014-05-15 13:51 (Reply)
Rush Limbaugh wins Children's Author of the Year Award (video)

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2014/05/blog-post.html
#8 Steve on 2014-05-15 16:25 (Reply)

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