Maggie's Farm

M, if you are always in perfect control of yourself and your language, if you live up to your ideals 24/7, if you treat everyone around you graciously, you have my admiration. But I thought that only Mary Poppins was practically perfect in every way!

Hi, Buddy, I think I make a lot of people feel really good about themselves....kind of like the bad example dog in obedience school....It was in the Sermon on the Mount that Jesus said that about Be Ye Perfect. Daunting. Found this just now, nobody I've read before, but brief and helpful on this topic: http://www.baptistarticles.com/Article/Be-Ye-Perfect/127 An interesting take on being perfect (not for the faint of heart).

Here is a great collection of quotes on atheism http://www.tentmaker.org/Quotes/atheismquotes.htm

Some selections:

A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion. --Francis Bacon

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying that it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist--in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless--I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality--namely my idea of justice--was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.--C.S. Lewis


If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped. --Evelyn Underhill

Those who believe they believe in God but without passion in the heart, without anguish of mind, without uncertainty, without doubt, and even at times without despair, believe only in the idea of God, and not in God himself. --Madeleine L'Engle

We think having faith means being convinced God exists in the same way we are convinced a chair exists. People who cannot be completely convinced of God’s existence think faith is impossible for them. Not so. People who doubt can have great faith because faith is something you do, not something you think. In fact, the greater your doubt the more heroic your faith. --Unknown

God is not discoverable or demonstrable by purely scientific means, unfortunately for the scientifically minded. But that really proves nothing. It simply means that the wrong instruments are being used for the job. - J.B. Phillips

A god who let us prove his existence would be an idol. --Deitrich Bonhoeffer

If we were to judge nature by common sense or likelihood, we wouldn't believe the world existed. --Annie Dillard


Understanding God is not attained by calling into session all arguments for and against Him, in order to debate whether He is a reality or a figment of the mind. God cannot be sensed as a second thought, as an explanation of the origin of the universe. He is either the first and the last, or just another concept. --Abraham Joshua Heschel

Re: God doesn't make junk

After an exhausting day at work, and sick with worry about one deeply disturbed kid, and stress readying others for college, my first response to Meta's question is to cite the verse that gives me hope every day of my life : John 3:16. " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.'

God made it all, God directs it all, God loves it all. Even Islamic terrorists. And certainly starving people worldwide. But we humanoids think we set it all in motion, think we are in charge, and tear each other to pieces, then blame God. Like a pack of brats fighting in the back of the car and whining "It's Mom and Dad's fault, they made us the way we are....". Or else posture "WE BAD>>>WE THE MOTHERS OF THE HOOD!" and ignore the fact that we are completely dependent on the parents we love to spit in the eye of....

Parents make a baby and have an enormous impact on that child. But whether that chlld becomes Albert Schweitzer or Hitler depends ultimately on that child, not the parents. Is it such a stretch to see an analogy with God and how we respond to His gracious gifts to us?

We believers sometimes manage to do for love what compulsion and fear could never accomplish in us...that was what I think was behind Dr. X's remark in her piece on personality disorders that only people who make a commitment to and are changed by God seem to get over them.

Many people (and it sounds as if Meta is one of them) have been put off by the failings of us religious folk, perhaps badly treated, and ever since enraged at religious hypocrites. As I tiresomely repeat to near and dear ones (who despise my Christian faith, citing my mulititudinous failings and sins), "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven..." My other tired phrase is "If you think I am a bad advertisement for Christianity, you have no idea how much worse of a jerk I was before I put my trust in God...."

It is the experience of God's forgiveness, and God's grace, totally undeserved yet illuminating, that wins and sometimes renews our hearts. Like most people in love, the faithful can be jackasses, bores, and insensitive to those who do not share their enthusiasm. But please realize that the process of sanctification is not about feeling holy or perfect or better than, but rather the relief of admitted sinners who have been given a second chance. We don't have to Photoshop ourselves for God. We know that God loves us as we are, but loves us too much to leave us that way. We feel (and to the uncharitable look) like junk. But God sees the statue hidden within the rough block, the plant about to burst from the dried up seed, the spring in the desert. It's about hope. It's about having spent part of one's lifetime with clenched fists, braced against attack, then to have been showered with love, welcomed, ransomed, healed, restored, forgiven. And to be asked only to reach out to the outstretched hand of our Lord and then in love to a broken and chaotic world. And then to pick up the pace, because He knows we are capable of so much more...

If you find this mindless drivel, Meta, my apologies. One woman's spiritual meat may be another's poison.

Back from a pleasant evening at church...

Meta, hadn't hear of Sulloway, but his work looks interesting.

BL, autism is part of it, We feel like we are shooting Rodents of Unusual Size in "Princess Bride" at times, not sure what will pop up when or where! One day something we do will work beautifully and one goes to sleep feeling like Supermom, the next one gets everything wrong, and one fantasizes about checking into the bin for a respite, as those exhausted Irish mothers described in Angela's Ashes did...