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Friday, July 7. 2023

Who is the arbiter of truth?

The Nation: A Federal Ruling Restricts Oversight of Social Media. A Trump-appointed judge imposed limits on the Biden administration’s contact with online platforms, potentially opening the floodgates for unregulated misinformation.


Sheesh, they are serious. 



Posted by Bird Dog at 14:37 | Comments (31) | Trackbacks (0)

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Finally, government mis-dis-mal-information won't be the only stuff on the internet social media sites.
#1 indyjonesouthere on 2023-07-07 15:30 (Reply)
"Unregulated misinformation" Oh the horror. That's so 18th century white supremacist thinking that we could have such a thing.

Related: In the base bulletin at a Fl base, there was an announcement I paraphrase as:
Florida Bill 542, Constitutional Carry, came into effect 1 July. As a federal site this bill does not apply on base X. Please see our rules at document so and so.

It was better when Dover AFB was the only place in Delaware, in the 80's, where alcohol could be sold and bought on a Sunday, because it was a federal institution.
#2 Mark on 2023-07-07 15:42 (Reply)
Read the article (as much as you cab stand) and tell me that conservatives are the authoritarians. No, really.
#3 alanstorm on 2023-07-07 18:37 (Reply)
Well obviously the misinformation has started already and The Nation has jumped in with both feet. I'm sure The New York Times and WaPo and CNN have already been there for years.
#4 Jerryskids on 2023-07-07 19:32 (Reply)
I came up on the internet before it was the INternet, the old BBS Systems riding out hidden lan connections of companies and universities. I met my wife gaming in 94 on the internet before it was the internet, and I was absorbing information I never had experience with before while hitting the News/usenets back in '92 or whatever.

These bitches are STUPID! and they can't handle the weight that will come from people who actually use the Internet for data, because the data is MASSIVE.
#5 wickedpinto on 2023-07-07 20:40 (Reply)
While the government can’t coerce speech, it’s a core function of government to provide information to the public, including objecting to misinformation. How could it be otherwise?

Government officials communicating with the media
#6 Zachriel on 2023-07-07 21:50 (Reply)
Humans are corrupt by nature, and do achieve perfection when they get government jobs. The problem here comes from giving a monopoly power to the Government to determine what is and what is not "misinformation". Inevitably, mistakes will be made (intentionally or not) and when they are, a Government monopoly will inhibit or delay the truth being discovered.

By the way, I see what you did when you assumed facts not in evidence by claiming that the provision and vetting of "information" as a "core function of government". Actually, under our Constitution, the Government has no such function. Rather, the Constitution essentially enjoins the Government from limiting the "freedom of the press" in any way. Furthermore, the Constitution states that any Powers not explicitly "delegated" to the (Federal) Government "...are reserved to the States or the People themselves..."

This injunction was granted because of well-documented, widespread, and years-long unconstitutional and tyrannical suppression of unfavored points of view by the Federal Government (working carefully through "cutouts" of course), many of which subsequently turned out to be... true, or at least arguably true. As opposed to quite a few of the official points of view which later were found to be false.

We know that you do this for the attention and the challenge of seeing how long you can get the threads to run, and how much of a rise you can get out of those foolish enough to play along. Whether you even believe some of the things you post is beside the point, actually. But this effort was definitely on the lame side, even for you.
#6.1 Hairless Joe on 2023-07-08 09:23 (Reply)
Hairless Joe: Humans are corrupt by nature . . .

True.

Hairless Joe: and do achieve perfection when they get government jobs.

False.

Hairless Joe: The problem here comes from giving a monopoly power to the Government to determine what is and what is not "misinformation".

Absent coercion, it's not a monopoly power.

Hairless Joe: I see what you did when you assumed facts not in evidence by claiming that the provision and vetting of "information" as a "core function of government".

It's something that should be obvious with even a moment's reflection. Government can't work without communicating information, mostly through the press. That means providing accurate information and calling out misinformation. If the government is wrong, they can be called out by the media, and, if they lie, there may be legal ramifications.

Hairless Joe: Actually, under our Constitution, the Government has no such function.

Government official communicating with the media.

Hairless Joe: Rather, the Constitution essentially enjoins the Government from limiting the "freedom of the press" in any way.

That's why coercion is not allowed. Your position is that the president or his representatives, or for that matter, members of Congress, can't talk to the media, not even to deny that alien lizard creatures have taken over the government. That's just silly.

A valid argument is that social media companies are too large and exert too much influence. But, that's a question of enforcing laws about monopoly power, something generations of Republicans have undermined.
#6.1.1 Zachriel on 2023-07-08 09:54 (Reply)
Quibble-DickZ: We're here to irritate commentors with our nonsensical ChatGPT "arguments" because we have nothing better to do.
You're welcome!
#6.1.1.1 Zachinoff on 2023-07-08 10:36 (Reply)
Zachriel: Astrophysicist, property lawyer, affirmative action expert, search engine, newspeak dictionary, constitutional scholar.
#6.2 eeyore on 2023-07-08 12:39 (Reply)
Maggie's own Cliff Clavin.
#6.2.1 Maypo on 2023-07-08 15:03 (Reply)
IF the government was actually "objecting to misinformation" there would be no case, no argument, no problem. What the government did was the exact opposite; they objected to and censored the truth and THEY became the purveyors of misinformation. This is fact! Not in doubt, not shades of gray it is fact. AND in the process they killed thousands of Americans by hiding truth about covid and the vaccine and the efficacy of other treatments which they lied about BECAUSE it would have prevented them from allowing an untested vaccine be used. They did this to steal the election and defraud trillions of dollars. There is literally nothing that can fix our corrupt government now except a resurgence of the guillotine for most of our elected leaders and many of our bureaucratic officials. Because at this point they have gone full fascist and they lust for power over Democracy. But Americans have become too domesticated, too docile, too weak, so we will have to suffer what most free countries have suffered from left wing tyrants through history and it will end in total destruction and massive deaths.
#7 OneGuy on 2023-07-07 22:26 (Reply)
There is literally nothing that can fix our corrupt government now except a resurgence of the guillotine for most of our elected leaders and many of our bureaucratic officials.

Now that's an opinion, and I think a lot of people would agree it's a very reasonable opinion, but I suspect the government would classify this as dangerous misinformation. Lots of opinions the government would classify as misinformation.
#7.1 Jerryskids on 2023-07-08 04:07 (Reply)
OneGuy: What the government did was the exact opposite; they objected to and censored the truth and THEY became the purveyors of misinformation.

Leaving aside that you assume your conclusion, the claim is that the government can’t try to influence media. That is preposterous. While, government officials can’t coerce, the government can certainly object to stories or violations of the terms of service of a social media company. If the president is lying, then the press can report that.

OneGuy: There is literally nothing that can fix our corrupt government now except a resurgence of the guillotine for most of our elected leaders and many of our bureaucratic officials.

Nothing like calling for the death of elected officials to add credibility to your position.
#7.2 Zachriel on 2023-07-08 06:38 (Reply)
If the president is lying, then the press can report that.

It's pretty to think so.
#7.2.1 Mike Anderson (Link) on 2023-07-08 07:03 (Reply)
Mike Anderson: It's pretty to think so.

The 15 most notable lies of Donald Trump’s presidency
#7.2.1.1 Zachriel on 2023-07-08 07:32 (Reply)
That was funny! CNN story about Trump's lies. Can they actually be that tone deaf? Has CNN ever reported the truth?
#7.2.1.1.1 OneGuy on 2023-07-08 10:00 (Reply)
OneGuy: That was funny!

Heh! Start with the first, "most telling" lie: It didn’t rain on Trump's inauguration.
#7.2.1.1.2 Zachriel on 2023-07-08 10:06 (Reply)
Zachriel: Astrophysicist, property lawyer, affirmative action expert, search engine, newspeak dictionary, constitutional scholar, carrier of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
#7.2.1.1.2.1 eeyore on 2023-07-08 12:41 (Reply)
eeyore: Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Are you suggesting it didn't rain during Trump's inauguration?

You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows.
#7.2.1.1.2.1.1 Zachriel on 2023-07-08 13:47 (Reply)
Zachriel: Astrophysicist, property lawyer, affirmative action expert, search engine, newspeak dictionary, constitutional scholar, carrier of Trump Derangement Syndrome, master of the non sequitur.
#7.2.1.1.2.1.1.1 eeyore on 2023-07-09 08:04 (Reply)
eeyore: master of the non sequitur.

The topic was whether the government is allowed to communicate with the media. Notably, you are the one who diverted the topic with a non sequitur. But to answer your point, we do not claim any particular expertise, and our arguments must rise or fall on their own merits along with the evidence we provide in support of those arguments.
#7.2.1.1.2.1.1.2 Zachriel on 2023-07-09 10:28 (Reply)
Quibble-DickZ: The topic was whether the government is allowed to communicate with the media.

Uh no it wasn’t no matter what ChatGPT toldja.
#7.2.1.1.2.1.1.2.1 Zachinoff on 2023-07-09 17:33 (Reply)
CNN was bought by a billionaire to be the "Brown Shirt" propaganda arm of the Democrat party. They hired racists, terrorists and traitors to tell their lies and hide the truth. This model essentially applies to all the MSM except FOX and the left is using "lawfare" to force FOX to comply to the communist left agenda.
#7.2.1.1.3 JustMe on 2023-07-08 10:31 (Reply)
JustMe,

None of that addresses the claim that the press is hampered from reporting on purportedly false statements made by the president.

Debunking Biden's 4 biggest lies about the economy
#7.2.1.1.4 Zachriel on 2023-07-08 10:37 (Reply)
QUOTE:
Reporter: The Chief Twit on social media has posted that the U.S. government is being run by lizard interlopers from Alpha Centauri.

Government official {wearing a lizard mask}: Codsssswallop!
#7.3 Zachriel on 2023-07-08 09:29 (Reply)
Those people have half of the country believing their BS.
What’s funny is watching them twisting into knots as they try to sell the ridiculousness of the ruling to their side.
#8 Tim on 2023-07-08 07:29 (Reply)
A government in a free country can do two things:

1. it can provide information to the public related to its policy initiatives, programmes and services; and

2. it can provide further information in response to what it believes is incorrect or misleading information produced by another party regarding those policy initiatives, programmes and services.
#9 JJM on 2023-07-08 14:33 (Reply)
After Winning the Battle of Gettysburg, George Meade Fought With—and Lost to—the Press

The press has not changed since the Civil War except that it is more one-sided.

QUOTE:
The 1860s news industry was unabashedly partisan, with many editors serving concurrently in government and party offices. Under Lincoln, Republican publications benefited from the shield of patronage, while Democratic counterparts that criticized the war effort risked closure or even criminal prosecution. Editors at the time didn’t view objectivity or accuracy with any serious reverence; instead, the editorial line reigned supreme.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/after-winning-the-battle-of-gettysburg-george-meade-fought-withand-lost-tothe-press-180982454/
#10 feeblemind on 2023-07-09 11:11 (Reply)
Greener’s Law: Never argue with a man who buys ink by the barrel.
#10.1 Zachriel on 2023-07-09 12:41 (Reply)
Addendum: Never argue with someone who allows ChatGPT to make their arguments for them.
#10.1.1 Zachinoff on 2023-07-09 17:42 (Reply)

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