Tuesday morning links

The Democrats and the media - redundant, I realize - are using Covid variants in the same way the W. Administration used that color-coded terror alert system. It's about political and personal leverage.

#1 Maniac on 2021-12-21 08:48 (Reply)

QUOTE:

Covid panic as progressive virtue signaling

U.S. COVID death rate: 1,200 per day.
Total U.S. COVID deaths: 828,836.

#1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 09:27 (Reply)

That begs the question. What would the deaths per day and total deaths be if the tyrants didn't take away our rights? Did all of these mandates save even one life? Doubtful. The virus does what viruses do and all the tyrannical mandates in the world won't stop it.

#1.1.1 OneGuy on 2021-12-21 09:49 (Reply)

OneGuy: That begs the question.

Raises the question? The original point was that there is very good reason to be concerned about COVID.

OneGuy: What would the deaths per day and total deaths be if the tyrants didn't take away our rights?

We assume you mean lockdowns (masks and social distancing are minor annoyances, certainly reasonable precautions for a pandemic killing people by the hundreds of thousands). The problem has been that lockdowns are only effective when they anticipate the outbreak. The U.S. could have saved half the lives lost in the spring of 2020 if they had locked down just one week sooner. See Pei et al., Differential Effects of Intervention Timing on COVID-19 Spread in the United States, Science Advances 2020. Lockdowns that follow the trend have much less effect as many people start to naturally take precautions as the disease takes hold in their local communities.

In any case, while difficult to precisely quantitate, hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved by lockdowns. See Flaxman et al., Estimating the effects of non-pharmaceutical interventions on COVID-19 in Europe, Nature 2020.

OneGuy: The virus does what viruses do and all the tyrannical mandates in the world won't stop it.

Oh? China, for instance, used draconian methods to successfully control COVID.

In the early twentieth century, there was a debate as to whether liberal democracies could unify in response to threats, or whether they would continue to squabble and be overcome by strongly unified fascist states. The answer then was that liberal democracies could not only survive, but thrive in the aftermath of the destruction wrought by the fascists. Today, the world faces much the same question. Which system is more effective in dealing with threats to stability and prosperity, liberal democracies or autocratic China?

#1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 10:39 (Reply)

“Raises the question?”
You begged the question by denying that you begged the question. That was ironic.

“The U.S. could have saved half the lives lost in the spring of 2020”
We should have shut down all entry to the U.S.? Do you also think we should shut down the Southern border and stop all illegal immigration. In many states the pandemic is being spread by illegal immigrants bussed there by our own government.

“hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved by lockdowns”
IF that were true, that is, if lockdowns saved lives than it is only logical that once that lockdown ended those people who were susceptible to being killed by the virus would then become infected and die anyway. So the lockdown IF they actually worked would merely delay that inevitability. Therefore if you choose to lockdown as a prophylactic to covid then you must lockdown forever. But, it likely isn’t even true, lockdowns are not an effective prophylactic as lockdowns by tyrannical Democrat governors proved to us with record cases during lockdowns.

“Oh? China, for instance, used draconian methods to successfully control COVID.”
Oh? LOL! Did they? You really bought into that little scam. Estimates are that China had 25 million covid deaths during their lockdowns. China lied to us. Yes, I know, that’s so hard to bel;ieve but China lied about their deaths from covid.

“The answer then was that liberal democracies could not only survive, but thrive in the aftermath of the destruction wrought by the fascists.”
The problem with that little piece of propaganda is that the fascists have morphed and early on choose names like Antifa or Democrat to hide their intent. The fascists among us are in fact the very same people that claim to be anti-fascists… including you I suspect.

#1.1.1.1.1 OneGuy on 2021-12-21 11:24 (Reply)

OneGuy: You begged the question by denying that you begged the question.

Huh? If you mean we assumed our conclusion, that is clearly not the case as our position follows from evidence we provided.

OneGuy: We should have shut down all entry to the U.S.?

The U.S. was slow to react. The shutdown from China was incomplete, with thousands allowed to enter without checks or isolation. The shutdown from Europe was long delayed. Again, lockdowns are only effective if they anticipate the outbreak, not taken in reaction to the outbreak once it occurs.

OneGuy: IF that were true, that is, if lockdowns saved lives than it is only logical that once that lockdown ended those people who were susceptible to being killed by the virus would then become infected and die anyway.

Not everyone has to be infected to reach herd immunity. It just requires keeping the Reproduction Number below one. That can entail social measures and, now, vaccination.

OneGuy: lockdowns are not an effective prophylactic as lockdowns by tyrannical Democrat governors proved to us with record cases during lockdowns.

If you must respond, at least read what we wrote. Lockdowns are only effective if they anticipate the outbreak, not taken in reaction to the outbreak once it occurs.

OneGuy: Estimates are that China had 25 million covid deaths during their lockdowns.

Please provide evidence of this claim.

OneGuy: The problem with that little piece of propaganda is that the fascists have morphed and early on choose names like Antifa or Democrat to hide their intent.

Fascists are right-wing authoritarian ultranationalists, typically under a populist cult of personality. Neither Democrats or Antifa are fascist.

#1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 12:20 (Reply)

“Fascists are right-wing authoritarian ultranationalists”
That isn’t true fascism is just another form of socialism/communism. The propaganda that fascism was “right wing” began in the 60’s when the left (fascists) thought we might have all forgotten WW II when the Left wing socialist/fascists tried to take all of Europe by military might. And indeed a lot of young and not very bright college students bought that propaganda hook line and sinker. They went on to be news readers on TV (sometimes called fake news) and continued to spread that clap trap. The sure sign of a brain washed mind is the belief that Fascism is right wing.

“Neither Democrats or Antifa are fascist”
LOL! That was supposed to be funny, right? Antifa are the very definition of fascist. Democrats are simply “smarter” antifa. Smarter only in that they know they have to hide their fascism or even the hoi poli would see them for what they are. Antifa are the Democrats “brown shirts” in black block. They were there on Jan 6th to break into the capitol and commit violence. Which means the entire so-called “insurrection” was a Democrat black flag event staged to stop the recount and to try to sideline Trump.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1 OneGuy on 2021-12-21 14:52 (Reply)

OneGuy: The propaganda that fascism was “right wing” began in the 60’s

Oh, gee whiz.

Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the “right,” a Fascist century. — Benito Mussolini, 1932.

OneGuy: Antifa are the very definition of fascist.

Antifa is multifaceted, but people who identify as Antifa tends towards anarchism, the opposite of authoritarianism.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 15:42 (Reply)

Left and Right are a seating arrangement in the French parliament where nearly all were socialists of a kind. Vichy French or Mitterrand communist French are the equivalent of German nazis (fascists) or German antifa (communists) of the 30's-40's. Properly refer to these socialists as authoritarian/totalitarian on one end of the political scale and to Anarchists on the other end of the scale.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-21 16:38 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: Left and Right are a seating arrangement in the French parliament where nearly all were socialists of a kind.

Heh. So, when Marie Antoinette was going on about "Let them eat cake," she was proposing to redistribute the confectionery wealth of the aristocracy to the peasant class. Wonder why that upset the peasants so much . . .

indyjonesouthere: Properly refer to these socialists as authoritarian/totalitarian on one end of the political scale and to Anarchists on the other end of the scale.

No. That's not how the terms are used, otherwise there couldn't be anarchists on the left and authoritarians on the right; but there are. Rather, left-right refers to egalitarian-hierarchical.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 16:51 (Reply)

Antifa are not anarchists, they are communists. Observe the nazis vs antifa in Germany before WWII. Same thing in Spain, the fascists vs the communists. France, and most of Europe, have been quite firmly in the socialist political mode since the French revolution and enlightenment. The victim was the French Catholic (Vendee) in France. One must get GOD out of the picture when trying to establish the "scientific"utopian society of socialism.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-21 17:46 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: Antifa are not anarchists, they are communists.

Antifa is not strictly organized, so ideologies vary, but the evidence shows that most Antifa are radical anarchists, though many are communists. These categories are not mutually exclusive, by the way, as pure communism is often seen as anarchistic.

indyjonesouthere: Same thing in Spain, the fascists vs the communists.

Not everyone who opposed the fascists in Spain were communists. Many were republican moderates.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 09:06 (Reply)

Antifa is organized just as BLM is organized. Just ask Portland. How much support do they get from the Portland politicians, as in, how much bail do they have to post.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 10:58 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: Antifa is organized just as BLM is organized.

BLM is a movement, but there is also an official BLM organization. There is no such formal organization that represents Antifa.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 11:14 (Reply)

Antifa obtained the name and symbol from the communist movement that fought the German fascists in the 1930's.
That was not an "accidental" name choice. They are a totalitarian/authoritarian organization just as BLM is and just as the original German fascists were. They are sure as hell organized enough to come up with the name and symbol to signify what they stand for.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 11:35 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: Antifa obtained the name and symbol from the communist movement that fought the German fascists in the 1930's.

That's right. That doesn't make modern punk rockers in Antifa members of the German Communist Party, though.

indyjonesouthere: They are a totalitarian/authoritarian organization just as BLM is and just as the original German fascists were.

Antifa adherents are largely anti-authoritarian, anti-capitalist, and, of course, anti-fascist in their ideology.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 11:46 (Reply)

No..they are modern punk rockers of the communists commune in America. Communists are anti-capitalists. They are authoritarian, they created their own little urban ghetto inside of Portland that the police finally had to remove by force.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 12:04 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: No..they are modern punk rockers of the communists commune in America. Communists are anti-capitalists.

Most within the umbrella of Antifa are certainly anti-capitalist. But because it is not a unified organization, there are a variety of different ideologies involved. Nor do all communists share the same beliefs. Nearly everyone who is antifa is anti-authoritarian, though.

(Did you mean Seattle?)

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 15:28 (Reply)

When they can organize across the country they do have organizational roots. Communist socialists and Fascist socialists are simply birds of a feather fighting for turf like any other gang. Whether that is Spain, France, or the US.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 19:47 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: When they can organize across the country they do have organizational roots. Communist socialists and Fascist socialists are simply birds of a feather fighting for turf like any other gang. Whether that is Spain, France, or the US.

The FBI has determined Antifa is a movement, not a centrally-controlled organization. That's consistent with Antifa's anarchistic ideology which entails "spontaneous order," not command and control As a counterexample, most communists during the Spanish Civil War were organized under Soviet control.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-23 08:25 (Reply)

And yet different states and different countries have different death rates, sometimes radically different. China shut it down by being truly tyrannical (not what we pretend is tyranny here). Even though they are certainly lying about their data, there is a limit to what could be covered up. They clearly saved many lives overall. Was it worth it? I would have to say NO because of the horrible precedents for disregard or rights and the way things slide down the slope. But it's millions of dead human beings I am waving away blithely even as I say that, and I have to draw breath and ask myself what the true tradeoffs are. Easy for me to say when I don't know any of them. But something worked, even if it was at unconscionable cost.

What possible difference is there among Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Finland other than distancing and other contagion-reduction? And one of those is much worse. Even with the recent surge in northern New England and the Pacific Northwest and Alaska as the cold weather forced them inside, those "surges" are far smaller than those other states had, and they are still at the bottom of the "deaths per million" list. How could that happen if our actions don't change anything?

Asserting that it would all have been the same regardless of what we did has no evidentiary basis.

#1.1.1.2 Assistant Village Idiot on 2021-12-21 12:46 (Reply)

Good for you except for arguing with that paid hack, Zachriel, Who pays him who knows, China, Hilary, leftover Dem walking around money.
Antifa - paid mob, paid by who?

I saw the comment count was 44 which just means Z spouting garbage.

Thank you BD and others for this forum. Happy Holidays!

#1.1.1.3 Grant1863 on 2021-12-21 19:06 (Reply)

For what it's worth I don't really "argue" with Zach. I merely pull his chain and when he reflexively spouts his far left propaganda I bait him into exposing himself.

#1.1.1.3.1 OneGuy on 2021-12-22 09:48 (Reply)

OneGuy: For what it's worth

For what it's worth, we have always taken your posts as sincere attempts at engagement. But here you seem to admit to just trolling.

#1.1.1.3.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 10:02 (Reply)

Funny the KiddieZ labeling others "trolls".
Bwaha! Lolgfy!

#1.1.1.3.1.1.1 Zachinoff on 2021-12-22 11:34 (Reply)

If you were really concerned, then you'd support effective measures.

Instead you're just throwing out numbers out of context as if that justifies leftists to do whatever they please.

That's a dishonest, idiotic position to hold. Not surprised it comes from you.

#1.1.2 DrTorch (Link) on 2021-12-21 11:44 (Reply)

DrTorch: If you were really concerned, then you'd support effective measures.

Vaccination.

DrTorch: Instead you're just throwing out numbers out of context as if that justifies leftists to do whatever they please.

We cited scientific studies to support our position.

#1.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 12:21 (Reply)

If vaccination is so effective, why have there been more deaths from Wuhan flu in 2021 when vaccines have been available all year than 2020 when they were only available for a couple of months?

#1.1.2.1.1 mudbug on 2021-12-21 13:52 (Reply)

mudbug: If vaccination is so effective, why have there been more deaths from Wuhan flu in 2021 when vaccines have been available all year than 2020 when they were only available for a couple of months?

Oh, oh!

Evolution. See Darwin, On the Tendency of Species to form Varieties; and on the Perpetuation of Varieties and Species by Natural Means of Selection, Linnaen Society 1858.

While the overall susceptible population is smaller, newer variants are more transmissible. Furthermore, susceptible humans tend to congregate for cultural reasons (political, social cohesion, orneriness).

#1.1.2.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 15:37 (Reply)

Lot of uh, reframing in that comment, KiddieZ..

#1.1.2.1.1.1.1 Zachinoff on 2021-12-21 15:54 (Reply)

So what other vaccines allow more cases and deaths after wide spread use than before?

Making excuses for the vaccines doesn’t make them any more effective.

#1.1.2.1.1.1.2 mudbug on 2021-12-21 16:08 (Reply)

mudbug: Making excuses for the vaccines doesn’t make them any more effective.

Didn't know that citing the foundational theory of modern biology was "making excuses." But contrary to your statement, vaccine development is informed by evolution.

mudbug: So what other vaccines allow more cases and deaths after wide spread use than before?

The prevalence and morbidity of influenza ebbs and flows from year to year due to the evolution of the virus. A far deadlier variant of pandemic influenza is a very real possibility. New vaccine technology now gives humanity a chance of reducing the toll from such a pandemic.

#1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 16:21 (Reply)

Z: But contrary to your statement, vaccine development is informed by evolution.

Here's a pertinent example: US Army Creates Single Vaccine Against All COVID & SARS Variants, Researchers Say

#1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 11:39 (Reply)

Effective measures are Ivermectin, as a prophylactic and as a treatment after catching covid. Recommended by American Assoc. of Physicians and Surgeons and by the Frontline doctors group. See their websites. They also recommend D3 and Zinc. The treatment after Covid does not destroy natural immunity and has NO side effects. Especially recommended for pregnant women who have a high level of miscarriages after the VAXX.

#1.1.2.1.2 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-21 17:58 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: Effective measures are Ivermectin, as a prophylactic and as a treatment after catching covid.

The evidence for the effectiveness of ivermectic is slim. No phase 3 trials have yet been completed, but are ongoing.

indyjonesouthere: Recommended by American Assoc. of Physicians and Surgeons

That is a right-wing group which propagates HIV/AIDS denialism, and other medical misinformation. When you rely upon an appeal to authority, you need to make sure they really are authorities. Perhaps you were confused because their name sounds authoritative and because they confirm your preconceptions.

#1.1.2.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 09:13 (Reply)

The VAXX is only considered a vaccine because they conveniently changed the definition of vaccine. Try to sell it as gene therapy and very few would want it.

#1.1.2.1.3 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-21 18:03 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: The VAXX is only considered a vaccine because they conveniently changed the definition of vaccine.

It's considered a vaccine because it provides acquired immunity. What do you think constitutes a vaccine? Why don't you think the COVID vaccine is not a vaccine?

#1.1.2.1.3.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 09:15 (Reply)

If that were a true vaccine then the vaccinated would not be transmitters of the disease. There would be no need to REDEFINE vaccine. This all started as incremental lying. Two weeks to flatten the curve, then 100% protection which has deteriorated, then no need to mask if vaccinated, then no spreading of covid if you are vaccinated. Twitter has been running several incremental videos by Gates, Fauci and the rest of the gang on their continual redefining of what this VAXX provides. They are experimenting on human lives with no liability to themselves. You think that the AAPS propagate aids/hiv denialism then do read up on Fauci's experiments on orphans that amounted to torture. They are buried at the Gate of Heaven cemetary.

#1.1.2.1.3.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 11:19 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: If that were a true vaccine then the vaccinated would not be transmitters of the disease.

No vaccine offers perfect protection. Two doses of the polio vaccine are only about 90% effective. And the flu vaccine is only 40-60% effective. So, are you saying the flu vaccine is not a True Vaccine™?

#1.1.2.1.3.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 11:29 (Reply)

The smallpox vaccine is a true vaccine as it provides absolute immunity and you do not spread smallpox after you are vaccinated. The VAXX provides neither of these, it is gene therapy for a virus that infects several species besides humans. You will have to VAXX all species that carry covid along with boosters in order to justify lockdowns of humans.

#1.1.2.1.3.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 11:43 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: The smallpox vaccine is a true vaccine as it provides absolute immunity and you do not spread smallpox after you are vaccinated.

Well, no. The smallpox vaccine is only about 95% effective, with effectiveness decreasing over a period of years.

You didn't answer, though. Are you saying the flu vaccine is not a True Vaccine™?

#1.1.2.1.3.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 11:49 (Reply)

The VAXX is not a true vaccine and is called a vaccine only through the redefinition of the original term. Just as they changed the definition of cause of death. Just as they changed the definitions surrounding Fauci's funding of Chinese research so as to bail him out of legal trouble. If a word is to have any meaning the definition needs to remain the same rather than changing it for political purposes.

#1.1.2.1.3.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 12:12 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: The VAXX is not a true vaccine and is called a vaccine only through the redefinition of the original term.

We've made several points, which you ignored. Try to answer the question: Are you saying the flu vaccine is not a True Vaccine™? And while we're at it, as the smallpox vaccine doesn't provide perfect protection, and the protection it does provide wanes over time, does that mean it is not a True Vaccine™?

#1.1.2.1.3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 15:30 (Reply)

If you read the post right above your last post you will notice I addressed your point of the VAXX as a true vaccine. It is only a vaccine by recent definition changes. It does not protect the person from catching covid nor does it keep that person from spreading covid. Smallpox is a vaccine as you notice there is no longer smallpox except in the lab. That will never be true for covid as it exists in the wild. Do you propose vaccinating everything in the wild? I do not consider the flu treatment to be a vaccine as it mutates in the wild and most of the so called vaccines for flu are ineffective. It is a nice income producer for Pharma but slim pickings compared to the covid fiasco. Now you have to admit that Pharma, Fauci, and Gates way oversold the VAXX. It doesn't prevent covid nor the spread of covid...there is no point to VAXX passports or lockdowns other than to provide for more corrupted mail in voting.

#1.1.2.1.3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 20:00 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: I do not consider the flu treatment to be a vaccine

Here is a use of the term "vaccine" to refer to the flu shot, a use which predates COVID-19. See Salk et al., Protective Effect of Vaccination Against Induced Influenza B, Journal of Clinical Investigation 1945.

Yes, that Jonas Salk. The same Jonas Salk who developed a polio vaccine also developed a vaccine against influenza. Do you think he might know what constitutes a vaccine?

#1.1.2.1.3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-23 08:31 (Reply)

There's also the question of what "Covid deaths" really means.

Hospitals have a huge financial incentive, to the tune of thousands of dollars per patient in government payouts, to report deaths as resulting from Covid. I have read several studies in which it was found that anywhere from 20-30% (or more) of those recorded as dying of Covid, actually died "with Covid" when the real cause of death was some terminal disease or other factor.

The pandemic has been politicized beyond belief. The same Democrats who swore they would never take a vaccine developed by Trump are now cramming the same vaccines down our throats as a requirement to enter restaurants, travel, attend public events, receive medical care, server in the military, etc.

Power is easy to grab, and once acquired, difficult to take back.

#1.1.3 Cleve Watson on 2021-12-21 11:52 (Reply)

Cleve Watson: There's also the question of what "Covid deaths" really means.

Multiple lines of evidence support the COVID death count. The COVID death count can be seen not just in the U.S., but in individual states, different countries, in different age groups, and in different time periods. When COVID infection rates rise, hospitalizations and deaths follow.

Other evidence is found in the statistics of excess deaths, a relationship which holds across the U.S., individual states, other countries, by age group, and in differing time periods. When the COVID death count rises, the count of excess deaths rises.

Regions of U.K.

Age Groups

Michigan

U.S.

#1.1.3.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 12:31 (Reply)

The CDC statistics of excess deaths show excess deaths in years before covid. Did they die of pre-covid or pre-pre-covid? Or are the statistics in error?

#1.1.3.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-21 18:25 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: The CDC statistics of excess deaths show excess deaths in years before covid.

Don't just wave your hands in the general direction. Please provide the data to which you are referring.

#1.1.3.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 09:19 (Reply)

The data source is the same CDC data source that you got your numbers for the 2020 excess deaths. Just scan further down the column.

#1.1.3.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 11:24 (Reply)

inyjonesouthere: The data source is the same CDC data source that you got your numbers for the 2020 excess deaths.

Here's the page with the graphic:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7015a4.htm
There's no other graphic or data-set that seems relevant.

You could just provide a link.

#1.1.3.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 11:32 (Reply)

The CDC source page covered about 10 years of their statistics on excess deaths. As I remember there were at least two other years with a considerable number of excess deaths but no comments on what the excess deaths were from. It seems they had no trouble using the last couple of years to "confirm" by their analysis that it was caused by covid but made no analysis of the cause of the other years excess deaths.

#1.1.3.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 11:52 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: The CDC source page covered about 10 years of their statistics on excess deaths.

Link, please.

#1.1.3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 15:17 (Reply)

I'm still looking for it...the CDC search page is not very useful.

#1.1.3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-22 21:17 (Reply)

Hospital incentives? And governors and other politicians have an incentive to minimise them to make their states and themselves look better. Some jurisdictions have policy that you can't call it a covid death unless there is a positive test, even if it is obviously covid. Not everyone gets diagnosed who has it. The question then becomes "What is the actual number?" You can't assert motive until there is actual evidence that needs to be explained. And there is no evidence the covid numbers are overall inflated. Some states overcounted (Massachusetts), some undercounted (Tennessee), and the overall is that the US undercounted by at least 100,000. There have been a million excess deaths in the time of the pandemic, and other than covid, little rise in all the other causes of death except a slight increase in drug OD's which had been on the rise beforehand.

Trying to draw a distinction between "died of covid" and "died with covid" is artificial and I am surprised anyone is still using it. Covid raises blood pressure significantly in many people, some dangerously so. If there is a jump in people having strokes after contracting covid you really think that counts for nothing? See also, pneumonia, premature births, decreased lung capacity, and literally dozens of other conditions. The missed and delayed medical care has not shown a systematic increase in other causes of death, even though everyone who wants to downplay covid has an aunt who they are sure would have lived except she couldn't get in to see the doctor. Since the Delta peak there might be some. ERs and ICUs full of covid patients are no joke.

The disease hits our shores and the death rate goes up 16% for 2020 and looks to be similar or worse for 2021. A million extra deaths. To say "Well sometimes it only made things they already had worse" doesn't get us around the basic fact that a million people would still be alive.

#1.1.3.2 Assistant Village Idiot on 2021-12-21 13:08 (Reply)

Bidens bounty on your life...American Assoc of Physician and Surgeons. $100.000 isn't a bad payout if you just follow the protocol.

#1.1.3.2.1 indyjonesouthere on 2021-12-21 18:13 (Reply)

Three Retired Generals Loudly Demand A Military Coup In 2024

QUOTE:

Enter now three retired U.S. Army Generals: Major Generals Paul D. Eaton and Antonio M. Taguba and Brigadier General Steven M. Anderson (“the Three”). In a Washington Post opinion piece, “3 retired generals: The military must prepare now for a 2024 insurrection,” they contend that events in 2020 revealed an incipient military coup and that, to save our nation, the U.S. military must act preemptively—radically and unilaterally. What they write should frighten every American.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/12/three_retired_generals_loudly_demand_a_military_coup_in_2024.html#.YcGN6rsg490.twitter

#2 feeblemind on 2021-12-21 08:50 (Reply)

Cmdr. Salamandar fisks the above Generals WaPo opinion piece.

QUOTE:

these three men – all Army I might add (not historically insignificant) – are one of two things:

1. Gobsmackingly delusionally isolated leftists with totalitarian tendencies.

2. Incredibly bad actors in the political sphere who ham-fistedly desire to ingratiate themselves with a certain sub-set of equally bad actors.

. . . Well, if nothing else, these gentlemen have provided just another reason in peace that we do not want a large standing Army. The vast majority of our land forces should be in the National Guard if for no other reason than to make the nation more secure from Army officers who look at this big military of theirs and are itching to do something with it.

https://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2021/12/heres-your-worrisome-military-culture.html

#2.1 feeblemind on 2021-12-21 12:22 (Reply)

As a point of honor, military retirees who try to be media incluencers should first resign their commissions and forego their pensions. (Retired 46 years.)

#2.2 BillH on 2021-12-21 12:41 (Reply)

QUOTE:

Fury From The Left After George Will Calls 1619 Project “Historical Illiteracy” and “Not Innocent Ignorance”.

While adherence to facts are essential (some of the errors have been corrected), it is reasonable to reframe the American story through the prism of slavery and racism.

We shall never have a science of history until we have in our colleges men who regard the truth as more important than the defense of the white race

#3 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 10:05 (Reply)

Reframe
Is that what they call it now?
Bwaha!

#3.1 Zachinoff on 2021-12-21 10:29 (Reply)

Said the communist that celebrated the founding of the CCP.

Nice to know that they have corrected some of the inaccuracies. What ever the many truths of history, more socialism, more lies, more hate isn’t the answer. Focusing the entire American experience on the prism of slavery and racism, is not noble. It smells of an agenda, which is what the 1619 project is all about.

#3.2 B. Hammer on 2021-12-21 11:39 (Reply)

B. Hammer: Nice to know that they have corrected some of the inaccuracies.

That's what they should do.

B. Hammer: Focusing the entire American experience on the prism of slavery and racism, is not noble.

All histories only tell part of the story. Some, such as the "Lost Cause" narrative, are spurious and pernicious. It's important to realize—difficult for many Americans—that the history of the Pilgrims is not the beginning of everyone's story. Everyone alive today is the fruit of a long chain of ancestors, and they all are part of humanity's story.

#3.2.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 11:58 (Reply)

QUOTE:

B. Hammer: Nice to know that they have corrected some of the inaccuracies.

Z-Team: That's what they should do.

Inaccuracies should be dealt with BEFORE publication. That's what editing is all about. Also recall that weeks after the publication of the 1619 Project, the NYT huffily replied that the article was just fine, in spite of a number of PhD. historians with expertise in American History pointing out numerous errors. It took many months- a year perhaps- for the NYT to FINALLY make some corrections.

I am not a credentialed expert on American History, but even with my cursory knowledge of American History, was able to locate several errors in a mere skimming of the 1619 Project. Had Hannah Jones submitted the 1619 Project as an undergraduate's term paper, she would have gotten a plethora of red ink correcting her mistakes. That was a C- paper, at least in an era where automatic A's didn't exist.

#3.2.1.1 Gringo on 2021-12-21 14:33 (Reply)

Gringo: Inaccuracies should be dealt with BEFORE publication.

Sure, but correction is the next best thing.

Gringo: I am not a credentialed expert on American History, but even with my cursory knowledge of American History, was able to locate several errors in a mere skimming of the 1619 Project.

Most of the criticisms are repeats of the same criticisms, even of those aspects that have been corrected. Regardless, a U.S. history viewed from the perspective of the descendants of Africa is more than reasonable, as the issue of white supremacy permeates much of American history.

#3.2.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 15:48 (Reply)

the issue of white supremacy permeates much of American history.

And it should, as the percentage of African-Americans in Colonial America peaked in 1770 and steadily declined from 21.4 percent to 14 percent in 1860 to 9.7 percent in 1930 before rebounding slightly to around 12.4 percent today. source

The US was roughly 90% white in 1950 (which could certainly put a different spin on the usual civil rights narratives) and really only became 'multi-cultural' within about the last decade when Hispanics ballooned to almost 20% of the population along with significant increases in the percentage of Asians and people identifying with two or more races, causing a precipitous drop in the White Non-Hispanic percentage of the population.

#3.2.1.1.1.1 Christopher B on 2021-12-21 20:15 (Reply)

Zachriel: the issue of white supremacy permeates much of American history.

Christopher B: And it should

So, according to Christopher B, white supremacy should have permeated American history, apparently because Whites constituted a majority. "Go, Jim Crow!"

In your honour, we will quote this strange perversion of the U.S. Declaration of Independence:

QUOTE:

A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union:

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.html

#3.2.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-22 08:59 (Reply)

Words have meaning. It is not "reasonable". You are a liar.

#3.3 DrTorch (Link) on 2021-12-21 11:45 (Reply)

DrTorch: Words have meaning.

reasonable, being in accordance with reason, a statement or fact that explains why something is the way it is.

DrTorch: It is not "reasonable".

As we noted above, everyone alive today is the fruit of a long chain of ancestors, and they all are part of humanity's story.

White supremacy was at the heart of the greatest conflicts in American history, including the framing of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil War, and Jim Crow. Whatever the triumphs of 1776, the fact is that it did not mean freedom for hundreds of thousands of Black Americans, and they have their own stories to tell about the struggles of their ancestors.

#3.3.1 Zachriel on 2021-12-21 12:41 (Reply)

Rabbis want to end diversity programs. Ha! But did they suspend open borders? Did they suspend tikkun olam?So many, not just rabbis, want to change A and B and expect C to stay the same. The rich folk are next. they want to import a new people. But many stupid people in America want to eat the rich. But many the rich are importing come from countries that have recipes.

#4 Robert Moffett (Link) on 2021-12-21 10:06 (Reply)

Uhhh.. This is a group of politically+socially conservative Orthodox Rabbis. Not crunchy granola leftie Jews you may be familiar with, who babble on about Tikkun Olam.

Orthodox Jewish organizations very rarely speak out about issues in the general population. That such a group is mobilizing publicly against woke "diversity" initiatives is significant beyond the numbers involved.

#4.1 Ben David on 2021-12-21 11:19 (Reply)

The FBI concocted the plot to kidnap gov Whitmer, had their operatives act as kidnappers and found a bunch of moron patsies they then labeled as Trump supporters and conservatives.

The president used OSHA to implement his tyranny to punish people who choose not to vaccinate.

It is time to abolish the FBI, the FISA court and OSHA.

#5 Anon on 2021-12-21 11:30 (Reply)

Picture is of the very photogenic New Hope United Methodist Church, Waits River, Vermont, taken from about the bridge over the Waits river on Pike Hill Rd.

#6 Douglas2 on 2021-12-21 12:06 (Reply)

Thank you! I was wondering....

#6.1 Aggie on 2021-12-21 13:42 (Reply)

An amusing obituary

I am reminded of the obituary of a classmate's mother, who died several years ago, in her 90s. She wrote her own obituary, which is not standard practice. It wasn't as humorous as the El Paso obituary- though it had its humorous moments- but it was much better than the average obituary.

#7 Gringo on 2021-12-21 14:17 (Reply)

Durham investigating the Clintons.
Look, get over it. No one is going to jail.
Let's move on.

#8 I.......... on 2021-12-21 15:49 (Reply)

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Tuesday, December 21. 2021