We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
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Friday, November 19. 2021
The machine I use for editing seems to have crapped out. Lost all of today's links, and I don't think I can enter/edit new stuff entered into the pipeline for other contributors.
I blame the problem on the Lunar eclipse. Saw it at 4:30 this morning, and watched it slowly resolve until I got to the gym. Very cool.
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Speaking of viruses, the covid has now killed more Americans than the civil war did. And it is on track to in a few weeks kill more Americans than the 1918 flu pandemic did.
If so many have died, how come I don’t personally know a single person? Everyone I know who may have had covid had either mild symptoms or a cold/flu type of experience. Dispute that.
I don't know if the stats are 100% correct or even if they are being intentionally manipulated and neither do you. In fact I quite agree that likely some people who died from covid actually died from something else AND that some people who died from something else actually died from covid. It is a fact of life that exact and perfect information is generally not available.
But I am not a fan of simple burying my head in the sand and ignoring what is going on. covid is indeed killing people by the tens of thousands and it continues with no real end in sight. Eventually you have to recognize that. You can't listen to the deniers forever.
Simply because this crisis has been used politically does not mean that the crisis itself is fake. You can't simply read a anti-vaxxer blog and nothing else and be informed.
Are you aware of these numbers, gathered by two Stanford University professors?
AGE INFECTION SURVIVAL RATE
70+ 97.6% (non institutionalized, not in a care home)
70+ 94.5% (all)
Survival Rates After Contracting Covid
How is this a crisis worthy of transforming our society?
You are absolutely correct! But it has zippo to do with what I wrote. You are arguing the last war and not responding to anything I have said. Covid is real, it killed almost 800,000 Americans and will more than likely surpass 1 million dead soon and it won't stop then either. More than likely we will be dealing with covid and it's mutations for decades and more than likely the death rate will continue to be too high.
You wrote "Simply because this crisis has been used politically does not mean that the crisis itself is fake."
I responded with statistics showing why I think it is indeed a fake crisis. Most certainly not one where we should be destroying society as we know it. In a sane world, for example, Gov. Newsom would not force children, who have a 99.9973% Covid survival rate, to get the jab to attend school. Absolute madness. Sure, if you're elderly or fat or have diabetes, then yes, you might have a some cause for concern (but then you already have many health issues to deal with). But leave the rest of us alone.
You assume things and then create an argument to disagree with what you assumed. I support leaving you alone. But you are simply wrong when you say this isn't a crisis. You are welcome to disagree until someone you know or a family member dies from it. Then what? In 20 months 800,000 Americans die from this disease and you say it isn't a crisis! What is it then, a day to celebrate all those deaths? IT hasn't ended yet. It could kill another half a million in the next 20 months. It could still be killing Americans in the 20 months after that. Pull your head out of the sand, this is a serious disease.
RJP: AGE INFECTION SURVIVAL RATE
Apparently, old people don't count.
That was former NY Governor Cuomo who actually believed that and acted as such, as you may recall.
Do young lives count? Their lives are being ruined (school closures, lockdowns, mask and vaccine mandates, increased abuse, family bankruptcy due to business closing, drug overdoses, suicide) due to the response to a disease that effectively does not affect them at all. Not to mention the almost complete removal of freedom to leave your house in, for example, Australia.
RJP: Do young lives count?
Of course they do. You forgot children whose parents died from COVID. Deadly pandemics cause a lot of suffering. Vaccination remains the best defense at this point.
You are certainly steadfast and consistent in your refusal to even acknowledge that there may be downsides to the current covid policies, I'll give you that. But I'm confused. What does the masking, isolation, and forced vaccination of children, who virtually never get nor transmit covid, which is what I was talking about, have to do with their parents getting sick, as tragic as that is? For more, see The Costs of Inoculating Children Far Outweigh the Benefits
As to vaccinations, well, it isn't really a vaccine, is it? Vaccines, by definition (At least until the CDC changed the definition in August this year. Why would they do that, do you think?), confer immunity to a disease. This is clearly not the case. See Cases surging in Vermont, most vaccinated state in the country for just one example. See here for more examples in Europe of the 'vaccine' not working as advertised: Dutch Eye New Covid Measures After Record Cases. And why would Biden say "We need to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated"?
And since the mainstream media probably won't show you, here are protests currently going on over the squashing of freedoms around the world: Anti-lockdown Protests Around the World
Lastly, why does the FDA now say it would take 55 years to review the Pfizer clinical trial documents for public release, when they approved the drug on the basis of those documents in just 108 days?
RJP: You are certainly steadfast and consistent in your refusal to even acknowledge that there may be downsides to the current covid policies
Of course there are downsides to social measures to control the pandemic. There are economic, social, and political damages. Countermeasures have to be balanced against the deleterious effects of the disease.
RJP: But I'm confused. What does the masking, isolation, and forced vaccination of children, who virtually never get nor transmit covid, which is what I was talking about, have to do with their parents getting sick, as tragic as that is?
Children are carriers, and act as a reservoir for contagion. Also, some children can become very ill from COVID.
RJP: For more, see The Costs of Inoculating Children Far Outweigh the Benefits
A perusal of the article shows that it is full of misinformation. Let's just read until we find the first significant error.
in the remainder of this OpEd, I use the term “inoculation” mainly rather than “vaccine”, since the COVID-19 inoculants do not meet the legal definition of a vaccine (as we showed in the TR paper)
Didn't even get past the first point. The paper says, "A vaccine is legally defined as any substance designed to be administered to a human being for the prevention of one or more diseases." The COVID vaccine does prevent disease, so meets the definition. No vaccine provides perfect prevention, so that is clearly not the standard for the definition.
For instance, two shots of the polio vaccines are 90% effective. The flu vaccine typically provides 40-60% protection. But the medical profession calls it a vaccine. Jonas Salk, who developed the polio vaccine, also developed the first influenza vaccine. In 1944, he published “Protective Effect of Vaccination Against Induced Influenza Virus A”. Do you think maybe he knows what constitutes a vaccine?
Okay. Okay. That was a semantic error. Let's read on to the next error.
Thus, the actual number of COVID-19-based deaths in the USA may have been on the order of 35,000 or less, characteristic of a mild flu season.
The statistics of excess deaths support the COVID death count approaching one million in the U.S. Reports from morgues and hospitals also provide support. The rest of the article is no better.
RJP: See Cases surging in Vermont, most vaccinated state in the country for just one example.
Delta surge, cumulative cases per 100,000
New York, 13200
RJP: And since the mainstream media probably won't show you
RJP: Lastly, why does the FDA now say it would take 55 years to review the Pfizer clinical trial documents for public release, when they approved the drug on the basis of those documents in just 108 days?
Approval doesn't require redaction of private information. Release to the public does. Each page has to be reviewed by a person to redact private information. The process is being overseen by a court, so this will be hashed out, but the people seeking the documents could make a more narrow request for the most relevant documents.
Z: Delta surge, cumulative cases per 100,000
Sorry. A problem with the maths. The former was the cumulative cases per 100,000 to date. Here is the cumulative cases per 100,000 since 7/2021:
New York, 2766
Nice try at obfuscating the message. You can't possible see the surge by looking at the cumulative numbers, for goodness' sake!
Vermont 7-day Moving Average Cases (CDC Data)
11/19 (Last data available): 317
There's the surge you tried to cover up.
RJP: You can't possible see the surge by looking at the cumulative numbers, for goodness' sake!
Your claim is that the surge means the vaccines haven't worked. But there have been fewer cases and deaths (relative to population) in Vermont than states with lower rates of vaccination since the Delta surge began.
You could claim that the recent rise could overwhelm the longer trend, but that is far from clear at this point.
Lowest vaccination rate states:
West Virginia: 41.5% vaccinated. November 18, 7-day average moving cases/100k: 308 (and dropping)
Idaho: 44.95% vaccinated. November 18, 7-day average moving cases/100k: 210 (and dropping)
Alabama: 45.77% vaccinated. November 18, 7-day average moving cases/100k: 68.7 (and dropping)
Highest vaccination rate states:
Vermont: 72.5% vaccinated. November 18, 7-day average moving cases/100k: 323 (and rising)
Rhode Island: 72.1% vaccinated. November 18, 7-day average moving cases/100k: 402 (and rising)
Maine: 71.88 % vaccinated. November 18, 7-day average moving cases/100k: 347 (and rising)
Do you have any evidence, anything at all, to back up your statement, "Vaccination remains the best defense at this point."? Anything that shows that the 'vaccines' are working as intended, which is to prevent the disease? Because the CDC data show that at this point, the more people that are vaccinated, the higher the case rate.
And to clarify, two doses of the polio vaccine is indeed ~90% effective. However, three doses are 99-100% effective. So, yeah, that's a vaccine by any definition of the word. I notice you also avoided the question of why did the CDC change their definition of a vaccine. It's obvious they had to change the definition so it could be applied to the covid jabs.
RJP: Lowest vaccination rate states
Again, the last seven days may not represent the overall effectiveness of vaccination.
RJP: Do you have any evidence, anything at all, to back up your statement, "Vaccination remains the best defense at this point."?
We already provided it, which you then ignored.
RJP: So, yeah, that's a vaccine by any definition of the word.
Well, duh. Even one dose is a vaccine because it provides protection.
New confirmed cases attributed of Covid-19 in West Virginia, Idaho, Alabama, Vermont, Rhode Island and Maine
The cumulative number of cases since the Delta surge is the area under the curve. With regards to COVID, there is no way you would want to be Alabama rather than Rhode Island. Deaths are even more pronounced than cases as the fatality rate is higher among the unvaccinated.
Your plot shows the number of new confirmed cases in Vermont rising steadily from July until now (from close to 0 up to maybe 57/100k). How exactly does that provide evidence that the 'vaccine' works?
RJP: our plot shows the number of new confirmed cases in Vermont rising steadily from July until now (from close to 0 up to maybe 57/100k). How exactly does that provide evidence that the 'vaccine' works?
Asked and answered. Since July, Vermont has had 2 days with 57 cases or more per 100,000; while West Virginia has had 52 days with 57 cases or more per 100,000.
You might also look at this chart which compares vaccinated and unvaccinated case rates in Vermont. Note the much higher case rate for the unvaccinated.
RJP: I notice you also avoided the question of why did the CDC change their definition of a vaccine.
Asked and answered. The flu vaccine, which is 40-60% effective, has been called a vaccine since 1944 when it was first developed by Jonas Salk.
Ooh, you got me. CNN has one story buried somewhere on their website about protests in Europe while ignoring those in the US, Japan, Peru, Australia, and Israel, to name a few. Yep, the media is all over the protests, yessirree. Massive coverage.
RJP: Ooh, you got me.
New York Times, front page: Anger Fills Europe's Streets as Lockdowns Spread
I'm not basing my assertions on an anti vaxxer blog, I'm basing it on the only thing that matters: my own personal observations.
You can't trust what you read in the news. If Covid is such a dire threat, how come I not have met or heard of (outside of media) a single REAL PERSON who died of it? That's why I asked if anyone on this forum has actually seen or experienced a sign of the pandemic that would make them decide on their own to retreat to their home. It's fake.
LP: If so many have died, how come I don’t personally know a single person?
About one in 400 Americans have died of COVID. The average person has about 100-200 friends and casual acquaintances, which could explain why you might not personally know someone who has died of COVID. However, you almost certainly know of someone who has died of COVID, e.g. Herman Cain and John Prine.
Each death or serious illness touches many people even if it doesn't touch you directly. Science allows people to be reliably aware of things that are outside immediate sensation, so as to make use of the information.
Because you don't work in health care? I know four. Two of them thought that covid was "just the flu."
Another possibility is that you have your head up your ass. Your choice. If you measure all national emergencies solely in terms of how they affect you personally in Sheboygan, then Please don't help any kids with their science homework, okay? I mean, how many Jews in the Holocaust did your grandparents actually know, right? Name three people you knew personally from Ceasescu's Romania. So those didn't happen.
AVI, You obviously weren't on the debate team in HS.
I have been in CA, Mexico, and NYC, and not in Sheboygan, thank you very much, and yet I still haven't personally known anyone who had more than a cold or flu experience with Covid.
If my grandparents didn't know anyone in the Holocaust it's because they were in the US, not in Europe where it was occurring, same with Romania. Covid is supposedly occurring here.
Also, please refrain from using crude language. It's creepy.
>> Speaking of viruses, the Covid ...is on track to in a few weeks kill more Americans than the 1918 flu pandemic did.
USA population in 1917 was about 103 million, number of "Spanish Flu" deaths was around 650 thousand.
Percentage who died was about 6.3%
USA population in 2020 was about 330 million; currently, number of Covid-19 deaths is also around 650 thousand.
Percentage who have died is roughly 2.0% (rounded up)
The metrics say there's a large difference. "Lying with Statistics" is an interesting book. BTW -&- FWIW, the "Spanish Flu" reportedly could, and often would, kill in a matter of hours from the time of first symptoms.
"The metrics say there's a large difference. "Lying with Statistics"..."
Except that our health care today is 100 times better than it was in 1918. The 1918 flu today could probably be controlled and treated such that the death toll would be 1/20th what it was in 1918. How about those statistics!
RIICK: Percentage who died was about 6.3% . . . Percentage who have died is roughly 2.0%
0.63% . . . 0.25%
A recent high profile example is the case of Colin Powell.
84 years old and suffering (and dying) from multiple cancers and Parkinson's disease.
Cause of death: Complications from Covid.
No, that question was never very sensible, and the people who have answered it a hundred times have moved on.
Did the kulaks die from communism, or only with communism?
Once covid cases were monetarily incentivized, every medical case possible became covid. We’ll never know the true covid death count. I don’t deny that covid killed people, I just wish there was more honesty about the ‘pandemic’.
OregonMuse, over at Ace of Spade HQ, has a whole list of questions concerning, if this was a real pandemic.
snopercod: Did those people die of Covid or with Covid?
There are a number of ways to resolve that question. We have the reported COVID death count from many different jurisdictions. Studies of death certificates support the COVID death count. Reports from hospitals and morgues support the COVID death count. The statistics of excess deaths supports the COVID death count. The consilience of multiple lines of evidence lends confidence to the reported COVID death count.
I stopped by the bookstore yesterday, and in the course of browsing came across an Economics For Dummies book which I thought might be useful for sending to Joe Biden. After flipping through the book a little bit, I realized that it would be far too difficult for him to follow. Does anybody know if they make a line of books like Economics For Baked Potatoes or something more suitable to Biden's speed?
Rittenhouse Found ‘Not Guilty’ of all Charges