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Wednesday, August 21. 2024

Revisiting Calisthenics (for the 10th time)

We do not believe that fitness can extend life very much. Fitness is mainly for vitality.


Calisthenics are the best thing for maintaining fitness. If you hate weights too much (weights are for building muscle) or find all "cardio" boring, a daily hour or less of calisthenic workouts might be for you.


They entail enough cardio if you take few breaks between exercises to keep your heart rate up, and at least help maintain muscle strength.


If you take the classes at a gym (recommended) you will do circuits of around 10-12 exercises for 50 minutes depending on rests. Good stuff. If on your own in a gym, it is more feasible to do circuits as below. That's what I do on my calis days.


A sample of my routines below the fold - if you can do all of these circuits in 50 minutes, that's amazing. I can not:


Warm-up:


3 min elliptical
1 min Jumping Jacks
1 min Jump rope
1 min Running in place, high knees


Circuit, X 1-3:


Body-weight lunges
Ball floor slams
Plank


Circuit, X 1- 3:


Push-ups
Sprints (30-60 secs) on any machine
Box squats 


Circuit, X 1-3:


Kettlebell swings
Ankle band walks
Wall ball slams


Circuit , X 1-3:


1 min sprints again
Pull-ups
Step-ups


Floor leg exercises (eg mountain climbers, bicycle)


Posted by Bird Dog in Physical Fitness at 13:48 | Comments (22) | Trackbacks (0)

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I suggest an experiment for you BD.

First, buy and read this book: The Barbell Prescription: Strength Training for Life After 40.

Then follow the advice in it for 6 months or so and actually develop some strength. Don't do excessive cardio or calis during that time (once a week maybe).

Then do your sample calisthenics routine and report back to us if it was harder or easier than before.
#1 RJP on 2021-03-11 20:32 (Reply)
Yes, I understand the argument but I will not do that 6-month experiment. Powerlifts 2 hrs/wk is enough for me. After this past year, I need endurance too.
#1.1 BD on 2021-03-12 07:49 (Reply)
Sorry, BD, you do not understand the argument at all. What you are literally saying is:
  • If you add 100 pounds to your squat, then body-weight lunges and box squats become more difficult rather than easier.
  • Your "core" that you strengthened through improving your deadlifts and squats can't hold a plank as well as before.
  • Push-ups are harder after you increase your bench press.
Does anyone actually believe that?

In your day-to-day life, where exactly are you applying all this hard-earned endurance? What makes you think you won't have enough endurance for those activities if you build up more strength?

At least buy the book and give it a read.
#1.1.1 RJP on 2021-03-12 15:14 (Reply)
For strength training for the over 40 crowd, Dr Sullivan's book would be hard to beat. I found it more useful than Rip's books.

The problems I find with many "exercisers" (you will understand this term) generally fall into one of several categories:
(1) They make progress and then get greedy and assume more is better and add too much volume and not enough recovery.
(2) They try to achieve too many goals (strength, endurance, speed, hypertrophy, fat loss) simultaneously rather than having a primary goal of progressing one or two qualities while maintaining other qualities ( to the extent that it doesn't interfere with primary goal).
(3) They neglect sleep.

I think too much volume and too little recovery is hampering BD's progress. As he obviously is reluctant to chance giving up gains he has made in terms of endurance, a "hybrid" program consisting of two strength training days (3 compound lifts 5X5) and two metabolic conditioning days (HIIT or calis). Frankly, he could even eliminate the separate cali days and just do them as a 15-20 minute warm-up on strength days and then just go for a walk on his "off" days.

PS Ageless Athlete by Jim Madden echos many of the principles outlined by Sullivan. Good book, but very tiny print (odd for a book aimed at older athletes). Also helps if you've read the Tactical Barbell series (two books by different author) - geared at LEOs and military more than pure strength athletes).
#1.2 mike on 2021-03-12 09:48 (Reply)
When you're right, you're right, mike. BD is a textbook example of someone who exercises rather than trains. But that is still better than 90% of people in general, especially at his age, so I don't want to give him too much grief.

BD's progress is hampered because his 'program' is basically "go to the gym for several hours a week and do whatever the heck you feel like doing that day". He wants to feel the burn, sweat a lot, and get his heart rate up, doesn't care that he's doing the exact same stuff he was doing six months, a year, two years ago. Doesn't understand that endurance can be improved quickly because much of it consists of improving the efficiency of existing energy pathways, while building strength takes longer as you are actually building new tissue. And that's fine, for him. I just wish he would stop giving advice about strength (sorry, 'toughness'), because he, and his trainer, really have no idea what strength is, why it is important, how to develop it, or how it is expressed.
#1.2.1 RJP on 2021-03-12 15:28 (Reply)
Love ya, but.....this was a pretty lame column.

Let's have some definitions. In reference to extending life span, define "very much." Then define "fitness." Fit to do what? Weights are for building muscle....if you engage in a program designed for hypertrophy. But you can also tailor a program aimed at strength (which weight class athletes will insist is different than "building muscle"), or power or endurance....or you can be greedy and try to do it all at once and just burn yourself out.

Regarding calisthenics maintaining muscle strength: It depends on your strength level. If you're a putz, they might. If you're an elite lifter, they won't.

The number of strength and conditioning trainers who are useless or harmful far exceeds the number who are useful. There is money to be made in the fitness industry - look at the Cross Fit fad where people spend hundreds of dollars per month instead of per year for a gym membership with limited hours run largely by clowns who took a weekend course and demand that you adhere to their program.

Regarding the 50 minute time limit, you gave us no rep counts!
#2 mike on 2021-03-12 09:17 (Reply)
Resistance training intelligently is hugely beneficial to maintain vitality and preventing or diminishing the effects of osteoarthritis (wear-and-tear in the vernacular) over time.

A well conditioned muscle processed glucose and oxygen more efficiently, and helps maintain joint alignment / mobility in the proper ranges / planes. Changing the rate of movement, eccentric contracture training, and combining resistance training modalities (barbells / bands / hand weights / kettle bells with bodyweight) not only trains the muscle but the neurologic system to respond to unexpected conditions (slipping off curb, lifting unexpectedly heavy or awkward object) and preventing injury.

Train hard, train smart, and recover between sessions.
#3 Mongrel19 on 2021-03-12 10:31 (Reply)
So, which exercise is better at this? I say running/jogging is the best exercise for your heart and your entire cardio vascular system.
#3.1 JustMe on 2023-03-22 19:14 (Reply)
The single "best" exercise would be swimming doing a mix of "crawl", back, breast and side stroke. This is going to provide adequate challenge to your cardiovascular system, plus provide enough of a challenge to your muscles. It might even be enough resistance to help maintain bone mass.

After that I'd put a rowing machine. Again it works most of the body. Hell, the rowing machine might be better.

Another good one is "rucking". Get a decent backpack and put weight in it, then walk quickly for 50 minutes to an hour. Keep adding more weight until it sucks, but you can finish. I use 1 gallon bags of sand in my pack because a 50 pound bag of sand is hella cheap, and you can fit 5 pounds of sand in a 1 gallon ziplock. This has the advantage of if you get in trouble you can just dump the sand.

Running, while great for your cardiovascular system--and keep in mind I would be running at least 3 times per week if I wasn't injured (bad, bad ankle sprain)--doesn't do a damn thing for your muscles or bones.
#3.1.1 William O. B'Livion on 2023-03-24 22:31 (Reply)
"I use 1 gallon bags of sand in my pack because a 50 pound bag of sand is hella cheap, and you can fit 5 pounds of sand in a 1 gallon ziplock. This has the advantage of if you get in trouble you can just dump the sand."

! Thank you! I've been trying to figure out a loading process that includes a `fail-safe` system. Look forward to trying it out.
#3.1.1.1 JD in N AL on 2024-08-22 09:33 (Reply)
BD: you say "We do not believe that fitness can extend life very much". I think it does.

Consider the possible outcomes from various more or less treatable cancers or heart attacks. The better shape you are in the more likely you are to survive. I was told I beat 5:1 odds from a particular aortic dissection because of my "unusually well developed" circulatory system -- the result of having hiking as a primary activity for15 years after retiring.

Thank you for bringing all this stuff up. It deserves serious consideration.
#4 NH4KX3 on 2023-03-24 09:10 (Reply)
> We do not believe that fitness can extend life very much.

If you take 1000 twins, and put one of each into a "minimal exercise" group (e.g. walking, the occasional hike etc.) and the other into what our best guess of an "optimal" exercise strategy would look like (3 hours a week of zone two, two to 3 days a week of resistance work, and "some" balance and range of motion work) and the exercise group would live significantly longer.

Exercise, at minimum, reduces the prevalence and severity of type II diabetes (e.g. insulin resistance), reduces the risks associated with cardio vascular disease, seems to reduce the severity of dementia AND delays it's onset. Increases bone mineral density, thus reducing or delaying the sorts of fractures that start the downward spiral. Seems to prevent/delay some cancers.

It is clear that on average people who exercise regularly live longer than those who don't.


So does this mean that fitness extends life, or do you take the position that not exercising reduces lifespan?
#5 William O. B'Livion on 2023-03-24 22:40 (Reply)
Just a practical question on timing stuff.

How are you keeping time for things like your warm-up? I set up minute timers on my cell phone, but it slows me down if I'm doing different times, e.g., exercise A for 1 minute, then exercise B for 2 minutes, etc.

Is there a good app for setting multiple timers or even various timers for a workout?
#6 Thomas Doubting (Link) on 2023-03-25 10:22 (Reply)
What exercises are you warming up for?
#6.1 RJP on 2023-03-25 13:42 (Reply)
Right now, I'm doing a HIIT routine where I do some exercise for 1 minute (e.g., as many push-ups as I can in 1 minute) followed by 30 seconds of rest, then another exercise (e.g., mountain climbers) for 1 minute, etc.

Fooling around with my cell phone for every timer slows everything down and is distracting.

I just asked about the warm-up because that's what BD was talking about and it is timed.
#6.1.1 Thomas Doubting (Link) on 2023-03-25 21:30 (Reply)
Arguing over the "best" type of exercise to maintain our health and vitality as we age is relatively pointless, compared to the benefits of doing some sort of exercise. Therefore, you should concentrate on doing exercise you enjoy, because that will keep you doing it in the long run. A 75 year old that can run a 5k in 30 minutes or less, and a 75 year old that can still squat his/her weight, are both a long way from not being able to walk upstairs or get out of a chair without help.
#7 bk on 2024-08-22 10:48 (Reply)
True, but multiple studies have shown that muscle mass is the most important factor in determining outcomes as we age. Strength training with weights builds muscles, running does not. All exercise is good, but building and maintaining strength should be prioritized.
#7.1 RJP on 2024-08-22 14:08 (Reply)
I’ll modify that slightly by saying muscles mass and strength are associated with reduced mortality rates. Again, running does not make you strong.
#7.1.1 RJP on 2024-08-22 14:17 (Reply)
I don't know about the studies showing muscle mass decreases mortality; but Dr Peter Attia has posted frequently about people with higher VO2 max levels having reduced all cause mortality. I'd suspect runners do better than lifters with VO2 max levels.
#8 bk on 2024-08-23 14:43 (Reply)
No doubt that runners typically have a higher VO2 max than lifters. But lifters who do some additional cardio work on top of the lifting (which has cardio benefits even when done on its own) will certainly have better outcomes than those who only run. Can you refer to studies that show VO2 max is a better indicator for improved mortality rates than strength training, other than Attia's posts?

Here's a few random studies and articles I quickly found that show the benefits of strength training, just scratching the surface here:

Associations of Muscle Mass and Strength with All-Cause Mortality among US Older Adults
A short physical performance battery assessing lower extremity function: association with self-reported disability and prediction of mortality and nursing home admission
Strength training helps older adults live longer
How can strength training build healthier bodies as we age?
The benefits of strength training for older adults
#8.1 RJP on 2024-08-23 15:35 (Reply)
Here's Attia's article I was referring to. It has the papers listed as references, but for some reason I can't copy and paste them here. https://peterattiamd.com/all-things-vo2-max/

To be clear, I agree (as does Attia) that everyone ideally incorporate some strength training; my basic point is make sure you do something regularly and that will deliver many of the benefits of an "ideal" regime.
#9 bk on 2024-08-24 06:49 (Reply)
No argument from me on your basic point. I'm mostly trying to get through to those who think their 5k times are the most important indicator of fitness.
#9.1 RJP on 2024-08-24 18:25 (Reply)

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