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Monday, November 16. 2020
Sorry to say, but I don't think it's a game- changer at this point.
I am open to hearing real proof and not anecdotes. There will be lots of legal stuff, but you have to win big to win. Too big for the ordinary fraud.
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Does it matter what our personal opinions are when at least half of the country believes that there was massive election fraud? I believe that the evidence is going to court, not to the news media. It will hopefully be settled one way or the other either in court or congress, not in the public square where truth is currently very rare. THEN we should all have something to chew on for good or bad.
The fraud matters, but it matters even more that the Biden family have sold themselves out to China and will sell out the country if given the opportunity.
For the evidence, I suggest starting with the last four or five episodes of Rudy Giuliani's podcast, RudyGiulianiCS.com.
I would just as soon see a written transcript as invest the time in attending to a series of podcasts.
"Is vote fraud a big deal?"
There are two separate issues, I will only address one:
We don't know! We don't know exactly because the voting process and the counting process have been intentionally evolved into a process without checks and balances; without the ability to go back and determine if fraud took place. All of this is intentional and mostly by one party. 'Coincidently' that is the very same party that is becoming, how do I say this nicely..., fascist/communist. So, does this mean that they have perverted the voting process so that they can seize power and fundamentally change America??? Well, we don't know because they have created a system where we cannot prove that there is large scale voting fraud.
So is it a "big deal"? Yes! Because 73 million voters believe that they were screwed over AND that the "winning" side intends to run rough shod over them. AND a large percentage of that 73 million people are beginning to feel compelled to do something to correct this injustice. I'm not talking roughing up Antifa in the streets or writing stern letters. I'm talking civil war or perhaps selective assassinations of the worst of the left wing politicians and puppet masters.
What I would prefer is that we fix the voting system. Some ideas:
1. A block chain system for ballots so that we would know that the ballot is a real ballot AND where it was sent to (not the name of the voter but the precinct etc.
2. No more vote by mail with strict exceptions allowed for legitimate reasons.
3. No one party running of voting places. If they do not have both parties represented than they cannot open the polling place.
4. No one party counting and watching of votes. If they do not have both parties represented than they cannot count the votes.
5. Mandatory arrest of anyone interfering with the voting process. That means breaking any laws on voting.
6. Signature and ID required to vote.
7. Video cameras everywhere with all video available to the b public. The video must be detailed enough that you can confirm that no one cheated.
The alternative is anarchy. That is a big deal.
The man asks for proof and he gets more Konspiracy Theories.
Six figures, but private sector. I need a janitor. Interested?
Troll, did you forget you posted that under a different name??? LOL
I agree with the post. The human brain overreads patterns, and right now Trump supporters are overreading election patterns. 2+2 =/= 22. I very much hope that one of these wild rolls of the dice turns out to be true and the guy wins, revealing that there has been a 1-2% movement left in every election of my lifetime, and we keep Trump in and seriously move some districts in 2022. It would at minimum force Democrats to moderate (or at least pretend to) to keep any power at all, which is all they want anyway.
Maybe there is something there. But things that look suspicious are not enough, not only because you have to prove malfeasance in court, but because sometimes there is a reasonable explanation for what everyone is screaming about. If only one state - hell, even one district can be turned it provides the energy among the many Americans who don't pay that much attention and have already gone back to work to install serious reforms. Paper ballots are nice. Lots of other crackdowns won't actually change things, but I don't mind them.
Here is the sad truth. The Scandinavian countries have extremely low levels of corruption and have very clean elections. They don't have any special protections to prevent fraud. It's just that they hate corruption and don't engage in it. That is only partly true of Americans, and that is the real problem.
to AVI: "scandinavian countries have extremely low levels of corruption..." -
Scandinavian peoples and culture are much more homogenous than ours, consequently the trust factor is much higher within their society. Ditto the Japanese, witness how they came together after the tsunami & aftermath, and compare to how our peoples reacted to Katrina and other hurricane disasters. Or even the current "peaceful protesting" where young, healthy and well-fed blacks tear through stores like locusts, because of racism or some such lie. Chris Rock's aphorism comes to mind, and not just for me, either.
What passed for American homogeneity - best reflected by one of our most beautiful mottos, "E Pluribus Unum" - has not been generally true of our nation since my childhood (i've 6 decades on this rock). And it seems to me I don't hear that wonderful phrase with anywhere near the frequency as when I was a child.
In fact, to use it in conversation as I occasionally do, and see my fellows in dialogue stop, pause for the unvarnished second (... as they process this "new" infobit that just entered their brains...) ... why, I could almost swear I see their hands shuffling away the dust and cobwebs from a box of ideas they haven't seen in a long while.
But in any case, AVI, am not saying anything here you or most Americans don't already know - but I am saying it because it needs to be said, again and again, until most of my fellow unhyphenated Americans accept that we are targets, that the left has already dehumanized us, and we then take a hard look at what history teaches us about what happens when totalitarian ideologies gain political power and what they do - what they always do - to those they no longer consider humans.
A hard pill to swallow, but necessary. Then, like Glenn Reynolds likes to say, just think of them as ---- (insert whatever description fits those bent on destroying us, just don't call them Americans), and "it all makes sense".
This election was a preview based on what totalitarian dictatorships do in Cuba, Venezuela, in Nicaragua, USSR, China, and so on. The BLM and Antifa violence, escalating now in severity (deaths to normal Americans, Cops) and scope (expanding now more frequently into suburbs) looks very much like on-the-job training for those who hate us and wish to destroy us.
Look at the Khmer Rouge, the China Red Guards, Sendero Luminoso, the African cleansings like Hutu & Tutsi, or the Castroite elimination of undesirables in the communist brutalization of that beautiful island. Look to the dehumanization of the Jews, the Romani, homosexuals and other Untermenschen that Germany - at the time a first-tier state on a par with the rest of Western Europe, the US - fully bathed itself in.
Look to them all, and know that like the above, we so-called conservative Americans - unhyphenated, God-fearing, Patriotic and reverant of our Constitution, our Declaration of Independence, our Bill of Rights and most of all, lovers of the Freedom that underpins it all - we have all been dehumanized, otherized by the enemies amongst us.
Then look at what History teaches us about what happens when these conditions have existed before - and we true Americans will soon have to decide if we go quietly or if we don't. Because either they win or we do. There's no more, "they win" while we squirm in the pot as the heat gets turned up just. a. little. bit. more. That's not going to happen, they're coming after us hard.
Short of God intervening and saving mankind, I don't think there's any other way, no living with them, no trusting that they, too will respect and abide by the Constitution.
Well enough of that, AVI - I said alot more than the topic on vote fraud - but vote fraud is but one layer of this onion. God Bless & Keep you, and other voices of Freedom among our ranks, AVI.
The JG/Jack is Back
Proving fraud requires the opportunity to compare absentee ballot signatures with official signatures. This effort is being successfully stone walled, I suppose in hopes of running out the clock. Why?
Re counts are useless if they count illegally cast ballots along with the legal ones. Except.... if the recounts are done by hand and they differ from the machine/electronic counts. Per Robert Barnes, it is normal for recounts to be off by .01%, however he asserts that there have been recounts that are off by as much as 5-6%. These glitches may be inadvertent or they may be intentional.
It's great that you are so sanguine about it. Granted that there are trust fund babies, people who can count on the government trough, people whose livelihood comes out of globalism, public sector workers, creative, gifted entrepreneurs will be fine. But, if the Dems implement the policies they've proposed, it is bad news, maybe even dire news, for Middle Working America (wage earners) and Main Street. The Dems do not wish Working America, well in any way, at all.
There is denial and there is stupidity. In my lifetime, some 77 years, there have been a dozen or more well documented well known examples of the left first stealing elections and then once fully in power committing genocide. Could it happen here? Of course not we are a modern Democratic society.
re Sorry to say, but I don't think it's a game- changer at this point.
Since you seem to have inside knowledge of the level of fraud committed, perhaps you could clue the rest of us in and provide the numbers?
Either that or you are are making a sweeping assertion based on what, exactly?
There are too many things that just don't add up in this election.
If the fraud is negligible as you suggest, why aren't the Dems helping to reveal the goings on in this election? One would think they could score political points by being champions of free and fair elections . . . . unless they have something to hide.
What would they have to lose if the election was run fairly?
These are people that make no secret of having a plan to rule us in perpetuity. Why would free and fair elections be in their interest?
So yeah. I still think it was stolen.
I spent my military career operating in Third world sh*tholes, advising governments regarding how how to defeat insurgencies, terrorism, etc. Contrary to popular belief, we won some (e.g., Sri Lanka against the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Elam and for all intents and purposes in Colombia against FARC). In many of the countries I operated in, election fraud was routine -- and it does matter. If we go the way of the Third world, when it comes to such fraud, and which the author of this post finds perfectly acceptable, then we will deserve what we get. Nothing is written in stone that says America has to continue as the land of the free and the home of the brave.
And I add: The fraud is one thing, the fact that so many people are now goats willing to follow the Judas goat(s) to the slaughter pen is what bothers me most. "America" is no longer a nation but a multi-cultural empire that will surely collapse, as did Rome, Austria-Hungary, and a few others I could mention.
It was great while it lasted.
@ RetiredSOF -
USCG Retired here, Frater.
the Oath has no expiration.
Robert Barnes pointed out very well last night that the election held here a few days ago would not pass the requirements that the US holds when judging the fairness and transparency of elections in other nations. It wouldn't pass because no effort is being made to enforce policies and procedures that we already have on the books, and have had for over 20 years, to ensure that our elections are fair.
In Georgia, for example, the SOS vowed he would hold a hand-recount with audit and canvassing. He is doing none of that, except the hand recount. The bipartisan witnesses are not allowed in sufficient numbers or sufficient proximity to do anything related to their mission. And yet you say this doesn't warrant concerns. The same farce is being played out in other states - but you say, show me evidence. You're not thinking straight.
Barnes' point is that if one side is doing nothing but stonewalling from election day to now, then they have something to hide - and that something is more important to them than ensuring that the country still believes in their election process. One of our two national political parties doesn't really care if you believe our process is fair and transparent - at least not enough to allow monitoring and signature checking that both sides have agreed on, but one side ain't doing.
If doesn't matter whether you think the fraud is enough to change the outcome - it matters that you accept that fraud can occur at any level and be tolerable. If you're accepting it without tacking action, even an emotional reaction, then you're saying, it's OK - I accept. Whatevah
Good luck with that. I watched the very same thing happen in Venezuela over 20 years ago, when Chavez took a fraud-filled election that Jimmy Carter blessed and proceeded to install a dictatorship. I watched it all happen from a neighboring country that has close political and social ties. I've watched a healthy capitalist democracy descend into chaos, lawlessness, desperation. I've watched as people I know, business people, lost everything to lawless government confiscation. Keep telling yourself it can't happen here, and whistle louder as you walk faster.
If you haven’t seen or heard any real proof yet, then you’re clearly not watching or listening. Moron.
Vote fraud does not have to be widespread to be successful. You merely need it in the right place at the right time. Flipping a major metro area by a few thousand votes would flip some states.
Exactly - all it takes is a dump of fraudulent votes in a few key places.
Democrats like to crow about Biden (and Hillary) getting millions more votes nationwide but the the truth is that if you change less than 50K votes in three state.
7K votes in GA
10K votes in WI
32K votes in PA
then Trump wins the EC 278 - 260
That elusive "proof". I'm no expert but if a big city or county has 125% of eligible voters voting isn't that "proof"? A typical very large turnout is 70% and I suppose that somewhere at some time there was actually a 100% turnout (of legal voters). But 125% is literally impossible and is defacto proof of massive vote fraud. Am I wrong?
Being a docile pacifist creature works great for sheeple who are happily grazing in the fields of a totalitarian existence where there is neither a heaven or hell. Abortion now in the many millions is old news and quite acceptable by far too many Americans. Iindoctrination centers which at one time were some of the finest institutions of learning in the world have been transformed into Marxist and globalist hubs. California, being an example of social experimentation is now beyond the point of no return. It_cannot_be_saved... It has been said of late by a certain career politician that California IS a model for the rest of the country as America continues to fracture more each day because THERE WAS a massive voter fraud event that took place on a scale that would’ve made Stalin, Lenin, Hitler and a few other stellar world leaders giggle with approval. But being that President Trump was never accepted by the left and globalists, the argument for his not conceding is paramount to sedition. This in turn makes his supporters equally guilty. 71 plus million Trump voters are the enemy. There can be no compromise. Those 71 plus million voters learned this from the anti America citizens of the country who’ve vowed to burn it all down. BLM. Antifa and various other communist revolutionary organizations are the brown shirts of our time. It has become clear that to accept a crooked compromised racist and bigot of an old man on the left to lead the country is no longer acceptable to those 71 plus million voters who’ve been lied to day and night by the Dems, mainstream media and Hollywood crowd. For nearly four years President Trump has been spit on, lied to, mocked, called every name known to old sailors and prostitutes and hated like no other single human being since Hitler and Judas. No President in American history has ever been treated with such disrespect and vile ugly revulsion. Americans have been singled out for brutal assault and vile mocking as CNN and various other untrustworthy media people look on with approval. The fix is in for those who’ve committed crimes at the highest levels of government. The clarity could not be surpassed....Passivity in these times is unacceptable. Choose this day who you will serve. Your children’s children’s souls are at stake....
Can't wait to see your new segment on Fox-- a suggestion for the name: "Sticking Your Head in the Sand with the News Junkie!"
Tucker Carlson won't know what hit him.
Anyway, I'm just going to leave this here: https://twitter.com/intheMatrixxx/status/1328539229710856194
In 2016, a BBC election expert wrote about obvious fraud in elections, in reference primarily to Africa and Central Asia. Three of the key indicators: 1)98%+ turnout; 2) large percentage turnout or vote differences in adjacent precincts; 3) stopping or delaying vote counts. Now where did we see these three indicators come together on 3 November: Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta. Minnesota also had an astounding 91% turnout out across the state, driven by the burnt and gutted precincts of Minneapolis.
FYI: "We do not trust voting machines." Kraken
My view is it's less about who wins and more about were there any irregularities.
If we're to have faith in the system at all, then we have to know it's working as intended.
When 5-7 states have close elections that could be decided, one way or another, by fraud or machine irregularity, then the system is at risk.
The democratic and republican process is not designed to deal with these kinds of situations.
That's why we need to review the counts and the systems that manage them. I do not think it will make a difference...but if it does...that is meaningful in more ways than just one.
The real question is how badly they want a HOT civil war.
Some of us can show you how to burn down a shithole hive. While making sure NOBODY escapes!!!
Sorry, I have to disagree; ANY voter fraud means that someone's vote in an election has been ignored or nullified. In a Constitutional Republic we cannot let that stand,whether it is one vote or a thousand. As for your statement it is not a game changer or not that bad; peruse the voter fraud database compiled at Heritage- 1298 cases of proven voter fraud with 1121 convictions. THAT is an issue for me.
Sorry, here is the link to the database: https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud
Republicans Have Good Reason Not To Trust The Election Results
we are all gonna die anyway, so who cares about murder??
I am a long term expat living in Israel.
The local media has largely parroted the lamesteam US media throughout the Trump era, including the elections.
...and yet i and many others have gleaned enough info from the center-right internet to be convinced that there was significant, coordinated fraud.
The Trump camp has given sufficient detail about affidavits and other evidence to make a credible case, while (prudently) saving the details for court.
And you are living there and don't see it?
I think the main problem is that so many patriotic Americans still don't get how radicalized - and ruthless - the hard core Left really is. They have been able to live blissfully unaware of politics until now. And they literally don't know what"s hit them: apolitical themselves, they dismiss the idea that the Left's political critters have been working assiduously towards "fundamental transformation" all this time.
But they have. The changes in zeitgeist and morality are not just fashions that happened to arise.
Right now there is a concerted effort to get everyone to accept that Biden is the president elect. He is not. There is a parallel effort to drag out any recounts and investigations and simply run out the clock until Dec 14th when the first deadline is crossed. After that the effort will immediately become to destroy all evidence. This will all happen with the express assistance of judges who make impossible rulings knowing full well that once they rule that the slow pace of the legal system will mean that it will take months before their ruling are overturned, if they are ever overturned. There will never be "absolute earth shattering overturn the election proof" that the Dems stole the election but there will be a shit ton of proof that in fact Biden lost by a big number and we will simply have to suck it up and accept the fact that once again the Democrats and their dishonest judges and cronies have pulled the football away from us just as we were about to kick it over the goal posts. After Jan 20th the news media will never again bring up election fraud and you will only find out new discoveries from a few blogs. After Jan 20th the Democrats will turn their focus to punishing Trump, his family and his administration. The media will focus on this and dutifully report all of the Democrat charges and lies. The bottom line in all of this is you (the 73 million who voted for Trump) lost and if you don't want to lose your job and your assets you will not complain. The 62 million (living voters) and the million dead voters and the dozen or so ballot markers who elected Biden will be in your face for the next four years making sure you pay for your sins. It's over, now it's just a matter of running out the clock, hiding the evidence, full 'lawfare' against any Trumpers who resist and then on to full fledged socialism. Good luck! It's been a good run, some 245 years of freedom. But, it's over; enough good men did nothing...
It almost does not matter if fraud ("widespread" or "systemic", whatever those mean to some talking heads) is "proven" (whatever that means). Would you trust the re-counters any more than the counters? How do you know, without a total rerun of the election, that the bad votes have been purged from the system?
The perception was that this was a dirty election, that there was plenty of fraud, that the US election system as it is now can no longer be trusted. Ever again.
No one who ends up elected can legitimately say that the voters will trust that they won fairly. No "mandates." Whatever power and authority they wield will be treated by half the country as illegal and illegitimate. Every law passed is tainted. Every single thing the "elected" say or do is tainted.
Now the Left thinks it's going to ram their agenda down everyone's throat. That, my friends, is a recipe for violence, anarchy, and a nasty civil war without borders that will drag on for decades, if not generations.
I have followed the thread and think News Junkie is even more justified. Lots of insults and insistences that "you are blind and just won't look at what is happening," and dire warnings of how it looks just like a crooked election they saw in Latin America or on Mars. Evidence that the election must be fraudulent because that's what leftists do, you fool, you fool.
Yes, I have followed your links.
You are arguing like liberals, on feelings and impressions and mind-reading. Evidence. The continuing lack of it weakens your arguments by the day. I left liberalism 40 years ago for this idiocy.
Let me get this straight: You are expecting the comments section here to produce evidence of voter fraud for your perusal? Do I have that right - is that how you think it works, why people are responding with their comments on the election?
I'm trying to understand the position. The linked Battleswarm Blog has quite a few of the contested points described - are they not 'proofy' enough, or do they only become 'proofy' when/if the case is won and the facts are proven in court?
Richard Baris, The 'People's Pundit' pollster, made a quick survey of the online voter rolls in Michigan last week and found approximately 10,000 examples of people who were both dead, requested absentee ballots, and returned them with votes cast. Some of them were over 150 years old, according to the rolls. All of this information was online at the state's election site - it was just a quick search to see if he could cross reference dead-person votes. Would you consider that evidence of fraud, dead people casting votes? Or would it just be fraud if the votes were counted? Or would you now demand that you must review these 10,000 examples first before agreeing it was fraudulent? He published his findings, if you care to. Do you think more examples might be found with a more detailed search?
Suggest you might listen to the Robert Barnes' podcast from Sunday to help understand what is considered evidence in voter fraud cases, as well as some of the problems being encountered in the vote tallies in progress (He's working in Georgia at present). Discovery of proof of wrongdoing normally takes place during court-monitored discovery phases, which are triggered by evidence of Bad Faith in lawsuits when they're filed. That's why people conducting fraudulent enterprises try to cover up and conceal the activity - so that it escapes discovery.
But as an example, statistical anomalies, as evidence, were enough to force a re-election in Georgia in 2019, on accusations that Republicans had used ballot harvesting to win. Obviously we have a bumper crop of seemingly unexplainable anomalies in multiple states, at present. I found the podcast interesting.
Some people just aren't capable of connecting the dots.
Affidavits signed under penalty of perjury ARE evidence, not feelings. Video of people putting up screens to prevent counters from being observed is FACT. Republican observers being kept out of Philadelphia polls are FACT. Dead people voting is FACT. Troubling connections between Left Big Money and voting systems and software and local vote personnel is FACT.
Apparently you would never succeed at prosecuting a conspiracy. It isn't like criminals deliberately leave evidence of their crimes laying around for everyone to see. It takes investigation ... something the Left is arguing against doing. And you as well, apparently.
It's now a political question, not a legal one.
What fraud was done is mostly done and gone. They'll be able to overturn some votes, but most of the fraudulent ones are into the big bucket already, and there's no unringing of that bell.
We lost this battle when the people of the various states lost their rational minds and allowed for this mailed-vote crap. Sounds so good, so fair, so fitting for this Covid era - but what it really was was just incredible timing as a pandemic hit just as the commies were looking for another way to steal.
So we need to turn all of this anger and motivation upon the people in the states still allowing for mailed voting. I'm not sure how yet, but things will occur to us.
Because this is the fault of the stupid voters in PA, AZ, etc. Every voter in those stolen states ought to be furious - and if they truly did vote in enough numbers for Trump to have won their state, then they ought to have the political clout to make their votes count again.