We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
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Wednesday, July 1. 2020
Via Am. Digest:
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The point is that it prevents the spread of germs FROM you to others. So if everyone wore them, then it would significantly reduce the spread of COVID and other diseases. Why do medical personnel wear them in hospitals? To keep from spreading infection to critical patients during surgery and treatment. The idea that it is a protective barrier for the wearer is far overstated. It offers some protection, though.
The point is you don't know if you are sick. Apparently 40% of those who are contagious don't know they are sick.
One source: Prevalence of Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infection (Annals of Internal Medicine, June 3, 2020) There are a number of others, if you look.
Please read D Halperin’s response titled “A Very Useful, also Highly Problematic Review Article”. He endorses the authors’ finding that as many as 40% of infections are asymptomatic but does not agree that it establishes that these “asymptomatic infections represent a significant factor in the spread ....”.
If the virus is droplet-spread, then a mask will prevent transmission. However, this also means that it is unlikely that a non-symptomatic person could spread the disease widely through casual contact with or without a mask.
The contact between a medical professional and a patient is likely to be closer and more intimate than two people passing in the aisles of a grocery store. It's an entirely apples and pears comparison.
And every time we're in surgery we'll wear masks. Prior to this year, I have never been in a doctor's office where I or the doctor wore a mask even when the doctor knew I was there to be seen about an infection in the respiratory tract. The only exception is at the dentists office where the hygienist and dentist wore masks only while working in my mouth.
"The point is that it prevents the spread of germs FROM you to others."
Your health and safety is YOUR responsibility. Not mine.
Does it really prevent the spread of a contagious disease? If it did why did we release all those prisoners? Why do health care workers need expensive and elaborate PPE's?
Don't you see that you are being set up? It is almost perfect; i.e. "you must wear the mask to keep others from getting sick". Therefore if you don't choose to wear one you are a low life bastard and deserve to get beat up maybe even sent to jail. The governor decides when you must wear masks and you shall obey. You wait for it, it's coming. Then of course all the Karen wanna-bes can act like they are god and yell and curse at you and call the authorities.
One last question for the mask 'experts'; If the masks work and if kids are known to be super spreaders, why is it that kids don't have to wear masks? Seriously every child from birth to 18 should wear a mask 24/7. Why are they exempt???
The concern during surgery is bacterial infection, which involves much larger particles than a virus. Nurses usualy don't wear a mask when they enter your recovery room.
I only wear a face covering as a sign of courtesy to others; oh, and the fact that they require me to wear one or they won't let me in the store.
And, my choice of face covering is a bandanna so I really do look like a bank robber! Beside it is washable and reusable.
Those masks work great! If they didn't, the Governor wouldn't make us wear them.
That disclaimer is on the label just to avoid lawsuits. You can't be too careful these days.
'low life bastard' Hey, if the shoe fits ... :-)
Amazing how we've been turned into the characters in Animal Farm and Brave New World. The bike trail story BD shared the other day from Cape Cod is priceless.
I ran into a friend in the grocery store the other day and she said, "where's your mask?" I said, I don't wear one. I'm not sick and I don't want to look like a cowering idiot to my kids.
BTW, I want to ask Maggie's readers to check into a Facebook site called 'Dr Frank Models'.
Doug is an old friend and total geek. He's shut himself off from the media since January and been carefully modeling COVID. He's in the process of seeing his rational and clear understanding of the data run head-on into the f'd up narrative of the media and power mad politicians.
Luckily, he's a humble, Christian guy who doesn't take himself too seriously. He's modeled every state and 20+ countries. It really isn't as scary as you think.
Plus, you'll learn (or relearn) a little Calculus and Statistics. It's good stuff.
And wear masks ONLY in close quarters or if asked by the proprietor. Cutting your grass or driving alone in your car? It's not a good look! :-)
There's only one cure for The Wuhan, and that's a big Democrat win in November. It'll be gone before Christmas.
In case you missed it, Japan has some of the lowest CV-19 infection and death rates in the world. Why? Because in Japan, wearing a mask is not only a sign of respect to others from spreading your illness to other people, it's proven to be an effective means to minimize transmission.
Just look at the numbers; Japan has had 7 deaths per 1 million population from COVID-19. Compare that to Belgium at 829, the United Kingdom at 598, Spain at 580 and Italy at 562.
Unlike in America where everyone is terrified their "personal rights being infringed", the Japanese respect OTHER peoples rights of NOT being infected by inconsiderate morons who are too stupid to understand basic hygiene.
So please. Just put your mask on as a sign of respect to other when you go out and avoid large crowds during this pandemic. Why is that so hard for you people to understand? Or does a third wave of infections just seem like a great idea?
Hope you didn't hurt yourself jumping to a conclusion.
Japan is not an open country. They are very careful who they let in and especially the Chinese. So it is likely that they never got an large number of infected people in country... yet. So it is far more likely that the reason they haven't yet had their pandemic is luck and not masks.
Also Japan's medical establishment does thing differently than we do. A kind of odd example of that is if you get cancer in Japan and they test you and discover it the doctor will probably not even tell you. Their belief is since you are gonna die anyway why ruin your last few months on earth worrying about your cancer. They also, as a nation, a proud and jealous of their reputation. So they often hide medical issues; i.e. "lie". It isn't a malicious lies but more related to their treatment of cancer, that is why tell everyone that thousands of people are dying from something that they can't prevent. It's better to "don't worry, be happy". SO you cannot trust their stats. Ditto for South Korea for pretty much the same reasons.
This is also true for China and Mexico for different reason. China is outright hiding their Covid-19 problem while Mexico is so disorganized and uncaring that they have no clue. Pretty much the same for most South American countries as well.
The problem with searching for some country or some state that both uses masks and has low covid-19 cases to bolster your belief that masks work is that eventually the virus gets there and blows up your theory.
What are the actual odds that he, or anyone gets infected, gets hospitalized, needs ICU, and then expires?
Before we started wholesale testing and have blown up the case load numbers, the rule of thumb during the height of the epidemic was 100, 30, 6, 1. For every 100 exposed, 30 got sick, 6 went to hospital, 1 died. This was when the vulnerable were first being exposed. Once it took out the most vulnerable, this rule breaks down rapidly (witness the cratering of hospitalizations and deaths). This rule applies widely. Check out my friend Dr. Frank: https://www.facebook.com/groups/158015618707622/
"I said, I don't wear one. I'm not sick and I don't want to look like a cowering idiot to my kids."
Really? So when you do get infected, and you're laying in a hospital bed with a breathing tube down your throat, I'm sure that will really impress your kids how brave you are.
Do you also teach your kids that motorcycle helmets, seat belts and safety glasses are just for pussies?
Efficacy and risk should be managed by logic and evidence. Seat belts on, motorcycle helmets definitely.
But you can scoot and ride a bike without helmets, try to climb a tree and dive into the deep end of the pool.
Importantly, they have to learn their own limitations and take responsibility for themselves.
Let me see, do I write them out of the will if I find out at age 23 they rode a motorcycle without a helmet? What would you do?
And, just so you know, the data is accumulating. The fire has burned through the forest. Despite what the media says, COVID is in its final throws and masks and lockdowns likely did close to nothing to stop it. The virus had to do what the virus had to do.
So, lighten up a little. Pour a cocktail. Smile and laugh. Chances are pretty low (non-existent) the COVID meteor will hit you today.
It seems you believe that wearing magical mask means that you will never be "laying in a hospital bed with a breathing tube down your throat." Essentially what you are saying is wishful thinking with a little schadenfreude on the side. I read your post and what I hear is you in the background hoping that everyone who doesn't think like you gets sick. You are sad, so sad.
If the mask is 95% effective, two masks are 99.75% effective, if the sick guy and the healthy guy wear them.
I don't like the mask Nazis. They are too smug, too arrogant, too self righteous, too judgmental for my taste. "If you don't so as I say, you're an ignorant idiot, and a bad person and a bad example" is their message. F*ck them. If they have their way, we'll all be wearing masks all the time, to show how enlightened and respectful we are. Go to h*ll, and I mean now.
Where is the brand name on this box?
Is it merely a photoshop?
[i]"Importantly, they have to learn their own limitations and take responsibility for themselves."[i/]
You know, that's a very good point! Why bother teaching your kids about the risks and dangers in life. Just let nature take it's course. In fact, the more I think about it, you're actually doing your kids and the rest of us a huge favor with that approach to life.
By setting them up to fail during a potentially life threatening pandemic, you and your family might just manage to permanently remove yourselves from the gene pool.
I thank you. My kids thank you. And my future grand kids thank you. Because ultimately, the world will have one less family of idiots.
Nice - proving that Tim Farrell's sentiments in comment #9 are warranted.
Have a nice day to you too! Love it when people wish you and yours death. :-)
I always chuckle at the line about waking up one day and looking down your hand only to see your mother's finger. No quite as funny when its Chairman Mao's finger.
Perhaps you might consider an alternative view: Trying to be and rear strong, independent humans who seek always to understand and think for themselves. Free range, for sure. Not sheeple.
The space between fibers of a tightly woven cloth mask is on the order of three microns. The diameter of a corona virus is 80 nanometers. Thus if the virus were scaled up to the size of a golf ball, the fiber spacing would look like a four and a half foot wide doorway.
We are weeks into this "mask" issue yet no actual data on how effective the "mask" is in stopping both large droplets and the aerosolizing of smaller droplets.
We know the "mask" (i.e., not NIOSH certified N-rated PPE) do not stop aerosols, such as the close-range air-lingering virus. So the question is the stopping of the wearer's droplets effectiveness, which has no scientific work published so far. And the risk of such wearing from build up of bacteria and other contaminants due to the moisture. As well as the impeding of CO2 exchange during breathing.
Also, remember, if you wear a N-95 mask, in a 100% virus atmosphere, 5% of the virus still gets through. If you did not wear a mask in a 5% virus atmosphere, you would receive the same viral load over the same period of time.
West Hollywood has instituted a $300 fine for not wearing a mask. No penalty though for burning down city hall or beating up old ladies as long as you have your BLM paraphernalia on.