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Saturday, October 14. 2023

Are protein supplements worthwhile?


Protein supplements are for intense exercisers, ie people in training programs. People moving stressful weights or engaging in stressful-enough workouts to require muscle repair and muscle-building. 


In other words, a long walk, a jog, a mile swim, and banging manageable weights around for a while do not require a dose of 20-30 gms of protein afterwards (whether in ordinary food or as a supplement).


People in serious training programs probably do need 20 or so gms of protein within an hour or two after,  and the easist way to get that is in some sort of protein shake. Very few people want solid food after a tough workout.


This makes sense to me:  ARE PROTEIN SUPPLEMENTS GOOD FOR HEALTH? HERE'S WHAT EXPERTS SAY

Posted by Bird Dog in Physical Fitness at 13:27 | Comments (17) | Trackbacks (0)

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Sorry, but nowadays whenever I see "Here's what the experts say" I gag.
#1 Talnik on 2020-02-04 15:12 (Reply)
My thoughts exactly!

Are these the same "experts" who told us not to eat eggs due to cholesterol (as if dietary cholesterol is a major factor in serum cholesterol) or are they the "experts" who advised us about COVID?

What's even more unsettling is that the article fails to cite these experts by name and/or affiliation.
#1.1 mike on 2023-10-15 07:36 (Reply)
So why not get a big mac? Well the reason explains what the protein powder advocates don't always tell you. That is the useful purpose of the protein powder is for body builders. That is people who want to have high muscle definition and for most of us that means a super low body fat percentage. Usually, steroids are also used to get maximum muscle gain.

Does a person who exercises for health reasons or strength training, of for a hobby or training for sports "need" protein powder? Nope! They need maybe a little more protein to replace what they are breaking down but they can get that from a hamburger, a steak, rice and beans, whatever. Your body does not know nor does it care as long as you are getting complete proteins. Typically it is only the vegetarians/vegans who have any trouble getting all the complete proteins their body needs. The rest of us typically get too much.
#2 Anon on 2020-02-04 17:59 (Reply)
> So why not get a big mac?

Because of the bun, the "special sauce" etc. A Big Mac has 28 grams of fat, 45 grams of carbohydrates and 25 grams of protein.

A scoop of when protein concentrate has 24 grams of protein, 2 grams of carbs and 2 grams of fat. (Note there are several types of whey protein out there, so there will be some variation, this is just the fastest example I could find).

That said, a tuna or chicken salad, steak or porkchop is at least as good a source of protein.

The advantage that protein powders have is that you can shake them up and drink them as you go.


> Well the reason explains what the protein powder advocates don't
> always tell you. That is the useful purpose of the protein powder is
> for body builders. That is people who want to have high
> muscle definition and for most of us that means a super low body
> fat percentage.

More so with power lifters than with body builders.

> Does a person who exercises for health reasons

That's too vague to be useful. If you mean "exercises to maintain a base level of cardio vascular health and slow muscle loss" then you probably don't need to supplement with protein powder. A nice glass of milk would be a good recovery drink.

> or strength training, of for a hobby or training for sports "need"
> protein powder? Nope!

You don't "need" it until you hit the extremes of strength training, but that's not the right question.

The question (at least one question) is does it help me meet my nutritional, weight and exercise goals in a way that makes things easier, more cost effective, or more efficient.

Also see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073774/

QUOTE:
However, older adults have shown evidence of anabolic resistance, where greater amounts of protein are required to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, and response is variable. Thus, the recommended daily amount of protein is greater for older people.


Again if you're "older" it may be more efficient to throw a scoop of protein powder in a glass of milk or water than to get the equivalent amount of protein from meat, eggs or vegetable matter.
#2.1 William O. B'Livion on 2020-02-05 11:16 (Reply)
Very nice rebuttal.

"A Big Mac has 28 grams of fat, 45 grams of carbohydrates and 25 grams of protein." SO!!??? You do understand that your body needs fat and carbs? Right? Serious question. You do understand that your body needs carbs and fat???

I know! There are some people on a carb only diet or a protein only diet or a fat only diet (or almost only) because they read a book or something and it's the latest fad so what the heck! Right? But that isn't science it is fad and silly. Believe it or not a big Mac is actually good food, probably as goods as anything you can make it home after shopping at Whole Foods. There is nothing wrong with it.

Perhaps you don't know any bodybuilders. I don't just mean the buff 20 something at the gym I mean bodybuilders who compete. They eat strange! They eat cans of water packed tuna and hard boiled egg whites, and protein powder shakes. They do it for one reason only. NOT to replenish protein that their body needs but to so deplete their body of fat that they have great definition. AND they take steroids IF they can get away with it. THIS is NOT good eating habits.

There is simply no other reason for consuming protein powder. If you aren't trying to get to 2% body fat there is zero benefit from consuming protein powder... EXCEPT that the guy telling you to buy it gets a kickback. THAT is the only "benefit", I.e. profit. Eat a Big Mac and you not only get protein but you get fat and carbs that your body craves and needs. Simple as that! Everything else is superstition and fad.

By the same token, there is probably no real harm in consuming protein powder as long as you get your MDR of other nutrients. I would consider it the equal of eating a good meal and having a couple of cookies afterwards. It is fine as long as you don't short yourself somewhere else. I usually go for the Arby's Mocha shake with my meal and it does me just as much good as a protein shake would. To each his own, the problem comes in when someone tries to act like a doctor or health expert and prescribes these fads.
#2.1.1 Anon on 2020-02-05 13:48 (Reply)
> you do understand that your body needs fat and carbs?

Yeah, I realize that people need carbs.

But a Big Mac is all upside down *for someone trying to remain healthy*. The carbs in a BM are all "short chain" that absorb fast, spike insulin and get promoted to fat.

You do understand that NO WHERE have I ever suggested that one replace a meal with a couple scoops of protein blended in water, right? I mean a couple scoops in 16 ounces of whole milk used to wash down a hard boiled egg or two is pretty close to perfect nutrition, but *blegh*.


I also realize that if you are lifting weights (not just "body building") your body can process a LOT more protein than is in a normal meal.

Protein shakes are a way of balancing your macro-nutrients and getting some additional calories (if you need them--today I snowshoed for an hour, ran 30 minutes on a treadmill, did a lower body workout (abbreviated) and shoveled snow (slowly) for about 30 minutes. I ate a LOT of protein, fat and carbs at dinner, if I'd had a normal meal I would consider a shake before bed.

> Perhaps you don't know any bodybuilders. I don't just mean the buff 20 something at the gym I mean bodybuilders who compete.

I have known a few, though none are in my current circle of friends.

Yes, they have strange eating patterns.

But here's the thing, if you're over 30 percent body fat you do not need fats, and you need very few carbs daily (depending on your job. The more intellectually difficult it is the more you need, but not nearly as much as people think).
#2.1.1.1 William O. B'Livion on 2020-02-07 23:34 (Reply)
People need protein powder if they won't eat enough other foods with protein in them. Protein powder is no different from milk or dehydrated eggs or whatever.
#3 Dark on 2020-02-04 19:19 (Reply)
Except for the additional heavy metals!

https://www.consumerreports.org/dietary-supplements/heavy-metals-in-protein-supplements/

https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20100603/report-protein-drinks-have-unhealthy-metals#1

https://www.cleanlabelproject.org/protein-powder/

https://blog.nkdnutrition.com/is-chinese-whey-protein-safe/
#3.1 mike m on 2020-02-04 20:43 (Reply)
I'm surprised there was no discussion of the risks to your kidneys of consuming too much protein. Its unlikely you could do this by eating real food, but with shakes and supplements the risk has to increase (not to mention who knows what else they're putting in the supplements). Eat meat, drink milk, and you're likely to have all your body needs and can use.
#4 bk on 2020-02-04 20:20 (Reply)
There's no discussion of it, because there is no risk unless you already have compromised kidneys.

It's probably not possible for you to eat enough protein to injure healthy kidneys. The portion of your intestines that absorbs amino acids is fairly small, and can only absorb about 10g (average). If you ingest fast digesting proteins like Whey it simply passes through unabsorbed. If you eat slower digesting proteins (beans, meat), then your stomach moderates how fast you can absorb things.

If you have some sort of renal problems you're in a different space.
#4.1 William O. B'Livion on 2020-02-05 10:49 (Reply)
I’m not their target demographic but I simply do not trust powdered concoctions to be healthy supplements.

Food that nourishes our minds and bodies is not just the sum of a bunch of micronutrients. A little Omega-3, add some zinc, a dash of B12... no. Stop yourselves.

Besides, how many people are taking lots of soy protein into their bodies to reach these magic protein numbers, willingly exposing themselves to synthesized estrogen which in a male is definitely a very bad thing? These are the kinds of traps we set for innocent people when we focus too much on the individual components of food, rather than food itself.
#5 Jeff Brokaw (Link) on 2020-02-05 09:10 (Reply)
> soy protein into their bodies to reach these magic protein numbers, willingly exposing themselves to synthesized estrogen

It's not "synthesized estrogen", it's phyto-estrogens, which naturally occur in many plants.

This has been studied extensively.

Most body builders and power lifters have stopped using soy proteins because of early scares about this.

Most people supplementing with powdered soy protein are using concentrates or "isolates", in which the phyto-estrogens have been mostly to completely removed.

Fermented soy products (natto, tofu) don't have nearly as much in them--the processing destroys it.

Recent studies seem to indicate that it's not a problem anyway.
#5.1 William O. B'Livion on 2020-02-05 11:22 (Reply)
Thanks for the info. I’m no expert on this topic but I do pay attention to trends in health and nutrition and have a “healthy” skepticism about the latest and greatest theories and the state of the research.

“Seems to indicate” is the key phrase here. You’ll pardon me for not buying it, then, since the entire concept of processing micronutrients together to create engineered nutrition is suspect and may even be causing problems as yet undiscovered.

I just don’t see the point of making fake food in the first place.
#5.1.1 Jeff Brokaw (Link) on 2020-02-05 13:41 (Reply)
I have been doing some reading on the topic of protein consumption over the last few months, trying to figure out how much protein I need. I am 61 and left 3 times a week, heavy for 3 weeks with a deload week. Reading Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, Dr. Ted Naiman along with others, they are suggesting at least 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Dr. Lyon suggests at least 50 grams per meal for older adults as it takes more protein as we age to trigger muscle protein synthesis. And that brings me to protein powder. In trying to consume enough protein it is hard for me to eat that much meat so I have a whey protein drink midday. The protein supplements available today are far different than what was available 40 years ago. They are much easier to mix, to drink and the whey powders do provide a good source of protein. I think meat still provides the highest nutritional value so I try to mainly eat meat rather than supplements.
#6 Brad on 2020-02-05 10:10 (Reply)
Well said, Brad. Keep on lifting!
#6.1 RJP on 2020-02-05 10:19 (Reply)
Relevant: 4 Laws of Muscle
#7 RJP on 2020-02-05 10:44 (Reply)
"Studies in the 1960s found that people who retained more of their own teeth tended to have more muscle."

"If you want to retain your teeth, have them plastic coated. Only about 20 percent of children at poverty level and only 40 percent of kids from higher-income homes actually receive recommended sealants, according to studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

That confounds Shenkin, a pediatric dentist and spokesman for the American Dental Association. He says decades of research demonstrate that coating the biting surfaces of 6-year molars with a resin-based sealant can reduce cavities by up to nearly 80 percent immediately -- and up to 60 percent for four years or more." https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/decay-dilemma-do-kids-need-dental-sealants-752956

And it's never too late for sealants, you can have your teeth coated at any age. All incoming military personnel should have this done automatically. And if you're a parent, you can check around for the lowest price. Also, every single child should take a calcium supplement from the age of 14 to the age of 21. His or her bones and teeth will benefit greatly.
#8 Ron Lieberman on 2020-02-05 17:24 (Reply)

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