We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
This is a downer for Mardi Gras and Carnival season, the modern Saturnalias where no rules apply and reckless hedonism is in the air, but I'll post it anyway like a fuddy-duddy:
I am not sure how to define "natural" for human beings when humans are the ultimate culture-building and society-building animal. For humans, relationship-building and relationship-maintenance are complex, demanding, and sometimes seem almost impossible. Perhaps "natural," though.
Being an acceptable member of a bourgeois society and culture requires hundreds of external restraints (laws, rules, conventions, and expectations) and self-restraints (mostly against temptations and impulses and for reputation-protection). Bourgeois Westerners do not do many very "natural" things like pooping in the park, clubbing people who piss us off, grabbing genitalia when the impulse hits us, stealing people's purses, shooting a neighbor's dog to roast on the backyard grill.
As in ancient times when aristocrats and overlords lived without the constraints of the common folk and the stolid gentry, the Western world still has subcultures which are "above" - or you could call it "below" - the respectable bourgeois Judeo-Christian norms. I am thinking of the special subcultures of Hollywood, Washington, and the like where celebrity, money, and power can exist with separate rules. I am also thinking of some Fishtown subcultures, Tattooland, where there are different standards and expectations.
I must agree with Scarlett Johanssen that monogamy is not "natural" for humans although there is much variation in how libidinally- or id-driven people are. It is definitely not natural for me if some of my X-rated fantasies are evidence but, by behaving myself in many "unnatural" ways, I have managed to build a solid happy life without harming very many people, without blowing up my life, and without too much burden of guilt.
Bill Clinton and Scarlett Johanssen and all the others are free to live as they choose. Tabloid fodder is necessary to drive eyeballs. Perhaps that is why Miss Scarlett made her honest statement about her libidinal intentions. As some guy said on some site, "So I still have a chance to get it on with Scarlett?" Yes, maybe you do if you act charming and catch her in the right mood. Buy her a cocktail and act soulful and deep, wounded but brave. It might work on her and, despite talent, she is not overly bright. Seduction is natural and women like love and sex.
Women are far better at that game than men, however. Women have the power.
We take them as accepted, but monogamy and lifelong fidelity began because of the New Testament and Christian beliefs/teachings. They didn't exist before that, although verses in the Old Testament can be pointed to for support as well. (E.g., Proverbs 5:18)
indeed. Monogamy isn't required to have civilisation.
It's a way to bind a man to a particular woman permanently, but it's only one such way.
Group marriages (of various male/female ratios and sizes) can work just as well.
It's just that our primary Abrahamic religion has chosen to define the perfect (and therefore only allowed) form of relation between man and woman as having to be a heterosexual monogamous one.
you'll see things differently when you get out of kollege, live among normal adults, and raise a family. i.e., when you grow up.
Vic Morrow's tommy gun
I think just as it is natural for humans to be very physically active when they are young and moderately active when they are middle aged and not too active when they are old. Likewise I think it is natural for humans to be Polyamory when they are younger and monogamous when they mature. I think much in life is a progression and normal is different at different stages in our lives.
Very important things must be shared. That's why they're here. QED!
Windy's enormous binary opinion.
Exactly. So much of human nature and human actions are really middle of the road. For whatever reason we seem to prefer to focus on the periphery of human nature. It is more interesting to point out the strange and unusual. I enjoy my hum drum life.
Self-restraint is not highly rated in today's world. Narcissism reigns and what I want this minute is what I am entitled to. It took decades for this personal attribute to dominate and it ain't going away barring some cataclysmic event that restores a survival-level need for it - and the other personal attributes that are required to sustain a free republic: self-reliance, industry, thrift, sobriety.