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Sunday, September 4. 2016From today's LectionaryLuke 14:25-33
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Raised as a Catholic, I'm not real familiar with the Bible (we don't study the Bible, we have people who do that for us) but that passage is rather interesting to me. I've often seen references to the bit about giving away all your possessions but not the context. From the context of the king making sure he isn't going to lose his army before he risks it or the builder making sure he isn't going to lose his investment capital before he risks it, it seems to me what that bit about giving away all your possessions means is that you'd better have nothing you fear losing more than what you have to gain. "Having no possessions" doesn't necessarily mean literally having nothing, but just "have nothing you value more than following Me".
Now whether you're a devout Christian or not, that's something worth thinking about - what do you value most, what would you be willing to lose? It's always bothered me when I hear people make some sort of argument that amounts to "nothing's worth risking your life over" because I have to think how sad and pathetic your life must be if you have nothing you would be willing to die for, or, flip side of the coin, willing to kill for. Heck, I don't even have to think very hard to come up with a couple of examples of things I would be willing to die for or to kill for - they're upstairs eating their breakfast cereal right now. And I am grateful that I live in a country where for our founders "give me liberty or give me death" wasn't just a bumper-sticker slogan. They really did have a set of beliefs they were willing to die for and to kill for. Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the passage, but it seems to me this is just another way of saying "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Would you sell your soul to save your life? It seems to me that as long as you have something you'd be willing to trade your faith and your belief for, you really have no faith and belief worth bragging about. Jerry, very well said, even for a Catholic.
Just kidding. I converted to the Church this year and being poorly versed in the bible was something that our speakers in RCIA admitted to and chastised the parishioners for. I find many in my parish to be well read in the bible. That might be cultural, though. In Oklahoma Catholics are a tiny minority, and it seems like the majority of my parish are former protestants. Really though, more scripture is read in Sunday mass than in most protestant churches I've ever attended. BD, your Lectionary follows the Catholic gospel readings fairly closely. Based on your Yankee background and some posts I would guess you're Congregationlist. What lectionary do your get this from? Yes, Congregationalist. Whatever that means...
My selections are from the Vanderbilt Revised Common Lectionary site. 25-35 Though the disciples of Christ are not all crucified, yet they all bear their cross, and must bear it in the way of duty. Jesus bids them count upon it, and then consider of it. Our Saviour explains this by two similitudes; the former showing that we must consider the expenses of our religion; the latter, that we must consider the perils of it. Sit down and count the cost; consider it will cost the mortifying of sin, even the most beloved lusts. The proudest and most daring sinner cannot stand against God, for who knows the power of his anger? It is our interest to seek peace with him, and we need not send to ask conditions of peace, they are offered to us, and are highly to our advantage. In some way a disciple of Christ will be put to the trial. May we seek to be disciples indeed, and be careful not to grow slack in our profession, or afraid of the cross; that we may be the good salt of the earth, to season those around us with the savour of Christ.
Commentary by Matthew Henry, 1710. Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Probably no regular international travel itineraries, personal trainers, or Epicurean lifestyle blogging then. Indeed. Christians can't stay fit or have fun or have cars. Wait - what?
I have to hear it as a preaching against idols - whatever an individual's idols happen to be. I could easily be wrong about that. I am often wrong. The thing is pride, bd. Posing. Appearances. Self. Place, association, trappings, lifestyle.
When the purported faith is nothing evidently more than a weekly show or cultural event it tends to be questionable, even as Jesus questioned, in point, the rich man to gauge his real interest in the road less traveled. After all, his disciples were all-in with the cause. All in. Jesus sweated blood and went to his death by torture willingly. Enjoying themselves, modern rightist culturalists are as suspect as leftist SJWs are because they conflate their persons with their effects and have no idea what that thing Jesus did even was. It's beyond their grasp because it's beyond their character, and beyond their character because it's beyond their interest. Ten- Your point about possessions and trappings of wealth having an inordinate affect on one's sense of inner worth does seem to fit Jesus' admonition to that man. But I suspect that his counsel to the man was meant only for him and others of his type. It doesn't necessarily follow that every person who has accumulated some wealth is in need of giving it all away, only those who are in a form of bondage to it.
There are examples in the Old Testament, like Moses and David and Solomon who were men of wealth and power who were considered by the traditions of the Jewish faith to be singular men of God. I suspect Jesus would not take exception to that characterization of them. The theology of all this goes on forever and we're not going to debate it here in any definitive wisdom. Pursuant it, however, I find the notion that Jesus singled out one guy for some unique lesson to be self-serving. That's not plausible, especially when if one wanted to exempt one's wealth from God's judgement that's probably exactly how they'd proceed: "But God doesn't mean me."
Clearly that's not what happened there - Jesus led a life of abstinence and austerity, and was frequently on about the profound difference between the established classes and the disciple, a man who in each of the twelve cases, was likewise a austere person. That principle continues today. It's not rare but it is entirely consistent. We have monks over here and we have celebrity preachers way over there. We know the difference. BD has been lifestyle blogging forever, proudly going on about his definitive expertise in everything from luxury travel to food to carnism to destinations to personal trainers and precisely, exactly how to be ripped (in bed) or something, and now, even to how the expert casual voyager enjoys the benefits of privilege in an international setting with the smartest bags and carry-ons. It's all preening, or at least, is indistinguishable from preening. It's the middle age man's Kardashian gene, constantly on the 'Net with self-oriented content related to how we do things, save for the lack of selfies, thankfully. Meanwhile there's a distinct lack of reason that tends to cement just how puffy the faithful Sunday lectionary is. I've seen some outrageous assertions at this blog, all aimed at establishing a sense of self, place, and unique culture at the expense of some other faction, target, or community. To read this blog, it seems God loves the quasi-elite soft rightist out enjoying his life while condemning the folks on the other sides of a lot of fences. It's all over-fences, old money, blue blood Christianity, among the worst kind. And since I know a little about Christianity, and since this is all public and for effect, here's another perspective on it. Yes, there are plenty of failures of integrity, honesty, principle, and morality to keep us busy making judgements. They are, however, not at all consistently aligned with the values here, in this little space online. This is a crew of like-minded people whose lives and lifestyles count to the point and degree that they've become memberships at the club, their annual fees at the intellectual and cultural yacht basin where the julips and the lobster frame a perspective apparently aimed at maintaining the local status quo from the plebes, and I don't mean just the presumed intellectual inferior. And it's there where Jesus, if we're going to keep invoking Him each Sunday as our weekly penance, would all but certainly make a distinction, and where while ancient Jewish kingly wealth was what it was - none of you being ancient Jewish kings with, as you'll have to also agree given the context you raise, divine appointments unless you make them yourselves - putting your own effects and your miniature kingdoms and temples out there all the time comes off as faintly pharisaical when it tries to jam itself all together with who makes the best booze, where's the best Italian $500 hotel four weeks year, or how all other surf and turn is inferior to the one you just had in Paris. I think that Jesus probably doesn't exist and probably never did, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't much of a partisan of any stripe, running a blog with slight leanings toward the vague Republicanism seemingly expected to complete the identity of the place. Losing everything and finding it the road less traveled you, like Jesus or like Buddha, then choose to remain on all your days is a place of mind and it is ascendant and eternal. Having everything and advertising it and using it to make definitive secular findings on a number of levels is also a state of mind and it is cultural and temporal. Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. So you definitely believe anyone who aspires to the kingdom of heaven must sell everything they have to achieve it? OK. We'll agree to disagree then. I believe that anyone who aspires to the kingdom of heaven must master their inner selves. They must be able to exercise an impartiality to the material world. That is difficult enough that most people, myself included, cannot do it with any great degree of success. I also suspect that is what Jesus was driving at with his words to the wealthy man.
You seem to me to have taken a very literal meaning from the biblical citation. It follows that if one does not sell everything they have they have no chance at a truly Christian life. You also make reference to the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. They were regarded as hypocrites in the New Testament because they cleaved to a strictly literal interpretation of the Mosaic law and attacked Jesus and his disciples for not doing the same. In that context, pointing out that the citation under discussion may well be prescriptive rather than universal hardly seems pharisaical. But if that's the way you see it, then........................................ It's also beyond question that this blog is not primarily religious nor does its purpose appear to be to proselytize for Christians. It's a blog of general information that is distributed by the posters on the basis of whatever subject happens to be of interest to them. I for one enjoy stopping by from time to time and I particularly enjoy the lectionaries that BD posts. Personally I find it refreshing, a bit of timeless wisdom amongst the day to day news. So you definitely believe anyone who aspires to the kingdom of heaven must sell everything they have to achieve it?
Are you asking? I didn't say that or allude to it, and certainly not definitely. I pointed to the austerity and its spiritual nature and I contrasted it with lifestyle and enjoyment for its own Epicurean sake, Epicurus not being Jesus. We'll agree to disagree then. I believe that anyone who aspires to the kingdom of heaven must master their inner selves. You don't necessarily disagree, although you'd have to define this mastery you speak of. They must be able to exercise an impartiality to the material world. And does that impartiality comport with the detailed, paragraphs-long lifestyling inclination - only vaguely punctuated with the use of unassociated and uncommentaried copy/paste verse - in the context of what may be a fascination with secular or worldly pleasures? That may indicate impartiality of a sort, I suppose, but when I go back to the example of Jesus on a nonstop jet back to the Med for drinks on the fantail, I'm inclined to think less so than more so. That is difficult enough that most people, myself included, cannot do it with any great degree of success. I also suspect that is what Jesus was driving at with his words to the wealthy man. Yes, it's a profoundly difficult matrix, although strictly defining it by one example or by not including the literal instruction of austerity and utter faithfulness doesn't inform an answer to what it is or what's expected of us to observe the self-mastery of wordly impartiality, as I think you called it. This is because no man alive can say what constitutes salvation simply because no man alive (or dead) can say what God is and therefore what God intends or wills, if anything at all beyond what hand-written scripture can be claimed to say after the fact. (This is where I think it's wise not just to divorce from old works-based salvation but too from faith-based salvation when the latter isn't completely silent. The moment faith becomes a test, a rule, a standard, or a vocal means it also becomes a transferable value, which makes it a work, not a faith. Besides, just as none of us really know anything about all of this, we surely can't divine what God sees as the great value of faith that has it making a soul perfect for eternity.) You seem to me to have taken a very literal meaning from the biblical citation. Only if you read it that way. (And very is an unnecessary modifier for literal. Not to be pedantic, but in the context. Are you leading there? You had made other assumptions regarding intent that are not in evidence, so...) But that still doesn't absolve anyone of the responsibility to take the verse in question - and all of them, or they don't warrant the discussion or the original posting - quite seriously. After all the verse tends to call for a go/no-go setting that no Christians - Jesus not being Christian, as you'll recall - can say but yet Jesus saw fit to demand. I tend to think that being the standard bearer for globe-trotting among fancy, cultural traditionalists doesn't exactly illuminate any of these texts. So what's their point? The Pharisees ... were regarded as hypocrites in the New Testament because they cleaved to a strictly literal interpretation of the Mosaic law and attacked Jesus and his disciples for not doing the same. Therefore the Pharisees were regarded as hypocrites because they cleaved to a strictly literal interpretation of the Mosaic law's status quo as they weaponized it in their own time, it having no other function therein, and because they made a show of this religious standing against others they deemed less than they. That more common reading is how I meant the word. And of course that other religious body of the time - the highest, actually - convicted and handed Jesus off for execution by the State. These tend to lend some perspective to Jesus's sayings. Those sayings were kinda serious, serious enough to get Him killed. In that context, pointing out that the citation under discussion may well be prescriptive rather than universal hardly seems pharisaical. But if that's the way you see it, then... (I admit to using it to imply a question about that other sin, which is taking the Lord's name in vain. I hope to not take the Lord's name in vain - to own it without being it - as much as I can. Hence my references to silence and austerity and roads less traveled. If this reality is the spiritual matrix it seems, I'm in no condition to stand in any pulpits, as casual or slim as they may be.) It's also beyond question that this blog is not primarily religious nor does its purpose appear to be to proselytize for Christians. It's a blog of general information that is distributed by the posters on the basis of whatever subject happens to be of interest to them. I for one enjoy stopping by from time to time and I particularly enjoy the lectionaries that BD posts. Personally I find it refreshing, a bit of timeless wisdom amongst the day to day news. So it is casual then. Granted, and you've answered my question. In fact, it seems clearer then to find these weekly lectionaries more of that same lifestyle blogging. Look at me, for I am periodically of a certain kind of spiritual ilk and community that naturally bears less exposition than dealing with cocktails, hotels, or five-coursers evidently does. The lectionary as window-dressing for and with those other things. As you say, a refreshing happening among the other amusements. I see now how this leaves the lifestyle intact.
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Ten
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2016-09-05 15:32
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What about actually being required to hate father, mother, "spouse", children, and life itself? But you must love thy neighbor as thyself. Pretty confusing. Do we need to have contorted explanations, or to be sociopaths? I prefer to think that in the hundred-plus years before Luke was actually written down, there is a mistranslation of double negatives, sort of like the telephone game kids play.
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