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Wednesday, April 27. 2016
I found that I had to work up to barbell squats by using the leg press machine, doing plain squats, and doing goblet squats or heavy ball squats. Now I can do barbell squats. I did 5 sets of 6-10 this morning of increasing weights, and man do I feel it.
Her form is perfect. Get that butt back, chest out, head up, and go low. Perhaps lower than she goes if you can. This gal is strong and fit:
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A few quibbles and more...
Her form is perfect, but her squat technique could use some work, i.e. she could go much lower (she doesn't even get to parallel and she should given her age and gender).
Most people shouldn't squat like they are sitting in a chair. The cue is not "butt back", but rather "butt between the legs". Powerlifters (with gear) doing low bar squats are an exception and in that case, when the butt goes back, the cue is "point your nipples toward the floor" (while keeping the back rigid).
That's not to say that when doing front squats or high bar "olympic" squats your chest should be down. To the contrary, in these forms, your chest should be (relatively) upright with head facing forward (not up).
The purpose of goblet squats is to teach correct patterning, not to build strength. The patterning is that you squat BETWEEN YOUR LEGS rather than sitting back in a chair.
Now, some people who follow Mark Rippetoe with THINK that he says to bend at the waist and push the butt back. He does - if your a geared powerlifter. But most people on this forum don't fall into that category - I once did (sans the gear), but that was decades ago and now 90% of my equating is either front squats or single leg variations.
For most people (especially men) over 40, if you cue them to push the butt way back, you end up with something that looks more like a good morning than a squat.
I think you're misrepresenting Rippetoe's low bar back squat advocacy. First off, Mark does not teach geared lifters. He teaches beginners who do not use or need gear. Secondly, due to the basic physics involved in a LBBS you will assume a position that has a more inclined back to keep the bar over the mid foot. Third, the LBBS is initiated with a break of the knees and hips, not just"hips back". Lastly, the LBBS is preferred by Mark due to the fact that you have to use your posterior chain, using the largest muscles, giving you the greatest training effect.
Sorry, I didn't mean to advocate Mark Rippetoe as the final answer when it comes to squats or preferred exercises. Along with many others, I find much of his stuff useful, but also much of his stuff wrong. He's VERY dogmatic and opinionated and relies more on "we've always done it this way" than using science to advance his training philosophy.
1. Rip does teach experienced, post-novice lifters some of whom use gear. He also teaches beginners, but to imply that he only teaches beginners is wrong. If you doubt that, pay a visit (like I did) to Wichita Falls Athletic Club.
2. For most people who are not competing in powerlifting, assuming a more inclined (I assume you mean more horizontal) back position may not be a good thing (see Mike Boyle, Stuart McGill, Gray Cook). Further, "keeping the bar over the mid foot" is of no magic benefit; it's simply that when you do a LBBS and your back is more horizontal, your weight naturally shifts from the heel forward to the mid foot.
3. I agree. My point was in reference to Nicole saying sit in a chair and BD emphasizing "butt way back".
4. In terms of LBBS and posterior chain, Rip actually says that if you feel it in your hamstrings the next day, you did it wrong. last time I checked, the hamstrings are posterior chain. In terms of "giving you the greatest training effect"...
That's like saying "what's the best exercise" or "what's the best training program". It depends on what your weaknesses are and what your goal is. It also is a function of trade-offs. If (and that's a big IF) LBBS are the "best" exercise for "hip" strength, but have a high rate of injury or result in dysfunctional motor patterns, they may not be the best exercise for someone not competing in powerlifting.
The NBA strength coaches I have talked to, generally don't have their athletes do back squats because the risks are greater than the rewards due to the long moment arm of these athletes. LBBS are great for training powerlifters to do LBBS. For other athletes, there are - in the opinion of MANY professional and division 1 strength coaches - preferable options.
I am sure that the competitive power lifters on this forum, don't need my or your advice. For others, I would submit that there may be better options than LBBS (IMHO).
I would suggest that interested readers NOT follow training programs designed for college and professional athletes unless they fit into those categories. That's not to say that I don't advocate intense training programs that include HIIT, heavy weights, etc. It's just that you need to get comfortable with the fact that you're not trying out for a spot with the Dallas Cowboys and you're not 21 anymore.
Your goals - if you're over 30 - should be to gain (good luck) or maintain muscle mass/strength and mobility so that when you're 80 you can bend down and pick your socks off the floor and get off the crapper when you're finished using it.
Sorry to rant and sound like a know-it-all.
Actually, I was advocating that Rip is the go to source on Squats.
And yes, you are correct, Rip does coach intermediate, advanced and elite lifters. But his work in promoting an understanding of barbell training and proper programming to the beginner is where he reaches the greatest audience.
I suppose some folks may find Rip opinionated. However dogmatic and not being science based is again, mischaracterizing his writings, videos and seminars.
His work is most applicable to the Maggie's Farm readership. Anyone, of any age can train for strength, gain muscle and weight (though it does become harder with age).
I've said it before, trying to explain the how's and why's of effective strength training and programing is not possible in the comments section. As MF readers are an inquisitive lot, they would be well served to read Starting Strength and Practical Programming and then be in a position to make an informed decision as to how to proceed.
Bless your heart, you weren't ranting or sounding like a know it all.
At the end of the day we're all in the same church, just a different pew.
With respect to HIIT, I recently read of a study conducted using 60 YO males in very average shape. Six minutes of HIIT every other day, 3 times a week, using 30 sec-on, 30 sec-rest intervals, increased these average Joes' cardio conditioning by 50% over a 90 day period.
No need to be trying out for the Broncos (America's Real FB team) to benefit from HIIT! Geezers can really benefit from it as well.
Sorry, I worded that sentence poorly. As they say, it's impossible to say something in a way that cannot be misunderstood. I do think that high intensity training - HIIT and heavy weights - is GODD for young and old. In fact, I was involved in research regarding HIIT during the aerobics craze that showed HIIT to be beneficial in terms of blood pressure. This was not surprising to me as it has been long known that HIIT has a beneficial effect on catecholamines and catecholamine response.
Older people do have a more limited recovery than younger people and any type of high intensity training can be detrimental if recovery isn't considered.
My belief is that for people over 40 HIIT sessions should be limited to 2 - 3 per week with a bias towards 2 sessions. For short periods (less than 10 weeks) one can get away with overtraining, but on a chronic basis, the evidence indicates more than 2-3 HIIT sessions per week doesn't work.
With that said, one of the unknowns is what happens if your HIIT sessions are not all identical, i.e. if each HIIT session uses different activities/muscle groups (sprint, bike, rower, ball slams, etc.). If taxing the local musculature involved is the limiting factor, this should permit one to do more weekly HIIT sessions. However, if the CNS is the limiting factor, utilizing different activities may not be a solution.
As an aside, one has to be careful with work:rest ratios. If the rest interval is too short, what was meant to be HIIT becomes "traditional" aerobics type training. Working at a high percentage of one's VO2MAX for 30 seconds and repeating it with only 30 seconds rest (especially for a reconditioned person) for 6 repeats is VERY difficult physically and especially mentally. VERY FEW people will do this on a chronic basis.
Funny you picked Nicole Wilkins, she is a national figure competitor and has won several times. I have read many articles by and about her and she doesn't train in the manner advocated here. She does a lot of training that involves way more than the big lifts, though she definitely does them, too. She also does a fair amount of the dreaded steady state cardio.
I took your advice and tried my first deadlifts, though at the tiny weight of 65 lbs. to start. No injury!
I'll try it that way. I do only 8 reps, as slowly as I can. I watched a video and tried to stick closely to the form they suggested. By the way, 63 lbs. down this week. After another three pounds I can have a "I'm merely fat!" party--out of obesity range. I've had to replace nearly every scrap of clothing I own, which was pretty fun.
Do not do it slowly.
Let gravity mostly take the bar down, get a firm grip, and stand up with force.
In the old country, grandmother used to do this with sacks of flour, taking the donkey to the vet when it wasn't feeling well, and grandfather, same reason.
How much makeup should one wear at the gym?
Might be I don't wear enough.