Maggie's FarmWe are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for. |
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Saturday, August 15. 2015Saturday morning linksMaggie's Farm is #159 That's not very good but, then again, we are Centrist, not Conservative. Do us a favor and let your friends know about us. They might enjoy our eclectic site. Quote du jour via Insty: What is DARVO? Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender Shows respect. Late does not. She looks good for age 57 Review: Black Rifle Coffee Review: Black Rifle Coffee Do you have the nerve to watch this? Alarmists are Growing Desperate in Their Efforts to Influence Public Opinion Bloomberg: We Need to Keep Guns Away from Minorities to Keep Them Alive Rubio: We need to modernize our antiquated, broken higher education system. Here’s how Good enuf, but why would the Feds be involved at all? How Hillary will probably shrug off the email server story Contra Media Spin, It’s Hillary Who’s Being Investigated, Not Her Server Joe Scarborough - Time for Special Prosecutor This is worse, far worse, than Watergate, but the press hated Nixon. Chris Christie is pretty good. Nobody ever suggested banning the very words “pork” and “pig” to appease Jews. Or oysters. Kosher forbids shellfish Pentagon Fears It’s Not Ready for a War With Putin There will never be that war Nobody
ever suggested banning the very words “pork” and “pig” to appease Jews. - See more at: http://moonbattery.com/?p=61909#sthash.oeXsVX8n.dpuf Comments
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Rubio:
"When I am president, college applicants will also be provided with information about how much they can expect to earn with a major from a given school, allowing them to make an informed decision about whether the financial costs of their chosen degree will be worth it." This is the problem with everything today. The feral (and state and local) governments have their mitts in everything regarding the peasant's daily life, as opposed to what they are 'supposed' to be doing. And most people are ok with that. Yes, I've said this before here.
In Canada, education is constitutionally a provincial power not a federal one (we don't even have a department of education at the federal level). Our federal politicians generally avoid the subject beyond the odd very generalized "importance-of-education-for-all-Canadians" bromide now and then. The reality is that there's just not much to be gained with this issue in federal politics and everything to lose by being seen as a meddler in provincial concerns. So because your federal system mirrors ours in many ways, it always seems bizarre to me when I hear politicians in Washington constantly fussing about education matters. WOW: Airlines Refuse to Fly Critically Ill 3-Year-Old to Doctors… Then Parents Call Trump
http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/08/wow-airlines-refuse-to-fly-critically.html RE: #159, I'd say that's very good, considering most of the top 100 have some serious money behind behind them and are backed by people who were well known prior to having a website.
Also, what's the difference between centrist and conservative? I don't make a distinction between conservative and moderate. I avoid using the term 'right wing' because it isn't relevant to American politics. Re War with Russia:
If Russia were the aggressor in Ukraine, a Russian army would already be sitting on the eastern Polish border. Russia is not a threat to NATO or the US, and no attack on our European allies will occur unless we initiate the war ourselves. If the war can be contained to Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic states we would deservedly lose. More likely, the war goes nuclear and European civilization is permanently exterminated. America's, too, no doubt. And that's the problem. We are the aggressors in Ukraine (and Georgia and Moldova). We engineered the coup that removed Ukraine's only legitimate democratically elected president (Poroshenko is neither), and we unleashed the chaos that has engulfed that country, killed many thousands of people, made millions homeless and refugees, and destroyed the Ukrainian economy. All because Yanukovych got a better deal from Russia than he got from the EU/IMF. The problem in the world today is the US, the chief terrorist state on the planet. Consider: Nicaragua, Panama, Grenada, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine, Libya, Egypt, Syria. None of those countries attacked us, not one; we initiated war with all of them. We reduced them all to chaos. Consider also the drone war: dozens or hundreds of terrorist leaders killed or injured, thousands of bystanders killed or injured. American citizens, one a teenage boy, murdered without any trial or judicial due process--merely a Star Chamber operation. And the assertion that the President has the right to kill Americans whenever he deems fit. Then, of course, there is Ruby Ridge and Waco. The American President has become a serial mass murderer. Under the legal regime established by the Nuremberg trials, all these actions are war crimes. Dozens of German and Japanese leaders were hanged for similar crimes, although admittedly on a larger scale. Parenthetically, water boarding is a war crime, and Japanese soldiers were punished for it, some by hanging (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/yes-inational-reviewi-we_b_191153.html) The World's great problem is the American war machine and the lunatic war mongers who populate the Pentagon and State Department. Read that article. Listen to our military leaders. They want a war with Russia. We need another Nuremberg. "We are the aggressors in Ukraine"
This would appear to be true if you ignored the fact that the russians put a massive force of agitators there dressed as civilians controlled the elections and who beat citizens who democratically opposed the Russian dictator they installed. If you ignore all the provocations and dirty tricks it does indeed look like we meddled where we shouldn't have. If you forget to mention that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians demonstrated against the Russian meddling and begged NATO to help them it does leave only the possibility that we somehow stuck our nose where it shouldn't have been. What we should have done is look the other way and let Russia take the Ukraine and kill the disidents just as they did all over Eastern Europe in the 40's and 50's. "Consider also the drone war: dozens or hundreds of terrorist leaders killed or injured" I fail to see how this is bad. "thousands of bystanders killed or injured" This could be true. It is hard to know because the terrorists always claim the dead terrorists were innocent locals gathering for a wedding or something. But consider the alternative when you don't try to stop them. We can see this in Iraq today. Have you watched the videos of the beheadings including teenage girls tied and beheaded because they didn't want to cooperate in their rape? Can you seriously think letting the terrorists run amuck is preferable to a legitimate effort to eliminate the leaders and thus slow the carnage. "Then, of course, there is Ruby Ridge and Waco." I'm not sure of the purpose with conflating these incidents with world wide terrorism. Ruby ridge was a terrible mistake; a ATF sting gone wrong. Once Mr Weaver failed to show up for his hearing the die was cast and it became a case of trying to apprehend a felon on the run. and went downhill from there. Waco was an attempt by the ATF to make headlines and win some support. They had ample opportunity to apprehend Mr Koresh in town his habits were known. They preferred to storm the compound and make a big splash in the press; they did. BUT once those inside the compound fired on the federal agents they were clearly in the wrong. Stupid, stupid, stupid on their part. Mr Koresh decided he would rather kill his followers and die in the fire then surrender and that was sad. The FBI and ATF screwed up but it was Koresh who caused all those deaths. "'Consider also the drone war: dozens or hundreds of terrorist leaders killed or injured'
I fail to see how this is bad." In this, I have to agree. Why would you not use technology to minimize your own casualties and maximize enemy ones? the forum as a whole gave the US a pass on area bombing Japanese civilians as justified military necessity. and now someone's wringing his hands raw over an actual precision weapon that minimizes civilian casualties as opposed to, say, area bombing Iraqi villages in the hands of ISIS.
"The World's great problem is the American war machine and the lunatic war mongers who populate the Pentagon and State Department."
Gosh, did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning, Bob? Anyone might think you were a bit of a crank. there's so much stupidly ignorant in #4 that even GWTW can bitchslap the OP.
I'm not sure I'd consider Chris (let's ignore the 4th amendment, and the 2nd while we're at it) Christie an authority on legal issues.
Bird Dog: we are Centrist, not Conservative
Maggie's Farm is eclectic, and we do enjoy the free ads for Dylan, but the blog certainly leans right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk Bloomberg: We Need to Keep Guns Away from Minorities to Keep Them Alive
George Wallace couldn't have said it better. Let's keep knives, bats, screwdrivers, hammers, chisels, tire irons, chains, bricks, rocks, cobblestones, and a few thousand other things away from them too, OK?
QUOTE: To avoid the risk of potentially offending a Muslim somewhere, [Oxford University Press] has banned the use of the words “pig” and “pork” from children’s books as it might offend Islamic readers. "No, we haven’t banned books on pigs – but sensitivity is key in global publishing" http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/15/books-pigs-global-publishing-oxford-university-press-children QUOTE: How Hillary will probably shrug off the email server story The article implicitly assumes no laws were broken; and if no laws were broken, then it's all just loony tunes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiNoAFMmnwE We've already reached the point where others who have lesser offences have been sent to jail or had to resign their post. For example, we find that her email server was maintained by a contractor that did not have the proper security clearance.
The process will have to run its course, but we've been down this road before. Nothing has ever come of it.
And why is that? Do mean you actually think the DOJ has adequately investigated the myriad of possible crimes perpetrated by people in this administration? Who is responsible for Fast and Furious? Why are there no Clinton emails around the time of Benghazi? Why did the IRS lie when they said that there was no way to retrieve Lois Lerner's emails when they didn't even look on backup tapes that the IG found in a week? Why did Hillary go to the trouble and expense of using her own email server that was not secure when she could have free use of the State Dept. email facility which was free and secure? These are just a few of the basic questions that have been asked and the DOJ has not been sufficiently curious about to get any answers.
"Why did Hillary go to the trouble and expense of using her own email server that was not secure when she could have free use of the State Dept."
I think we all know or suspect that Hillary was selling favors and taking payola. This was her private email where she could extort and defraud and hide her tracks. I have to say that for the smartest woman in the world she was incredibly naive about the internet and email. If justice is done there will be a tsunami of incriminating emails that will be recovered or "found". With any luck someone in the Chinese or Russian government will send some of those emails back.
#9.1.1.1.1
GoneWithTheWind
on
2015-08-15 14:34
(Reply)
mudbug: And why is that?
Because nothing has come of it in the past. There's a lot of misinformation (such as the claim she was fired during Watergate), and after a quarter century, all that anyone has come up with is that her husband lied about adulterous sex in a lawsuit that was dismissed. Sure, it's possible Hillary Clinton broke the law, but based on past history, it's just hot air. "Everybody has something to conceal." — Sam Spade
#9.1.1.1.2
Zachriel
on
2015-08-15 15:25
(Reply)
Exactly what does the misinformation that she was fired from the Watergate committee have to do with her email "situation"?
I've listed half a dozen questions of serious malfeasance that have not garnered any interest from the DOJ. As they relate to Hillary!, I didn't even mention the list of lies Hillary! has told about her email. You seem comfortable with the fact that her email server was maintained by people who had no security clearance, that she did not avail herself of any security provided by the State Dept., that her email was not encrypted, and that she gets to choose which emails are available to the State Dept. If your standard of malfeasance is that the DOJ hasn't made a case of it. They haven't made a case of anything that has happened in the administration. If in the next pubbie administration, there are accusations of wrong doing that are referred to the DOJ and they do nothing, will you be satisfied then?
#9.1.1.1.2.1
mudbug
on
2015-08-15 15:43
(Reply)
mudbug: Exactly what does the misinformation that she was fired from the Watergate committee have to do with her email "situation"?
Because the political right has been doing this for a quarter century. A lot of hoopla, then nothing or next to nothing. Who knows. Maybe one of these days you'll get that wascally wabbit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxiv3CBMS4M
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-15 15:56
(Reply)
Interesting how you zero in on a (semi) rhetorical question and completely ignore obvious evidence of malfeasance on Hillary!'s and the DOJ's part as well as my question about how you'd feel if the parties were reversed.
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1
mudbug
on
2015-08-15 16:14
(Reply)
mudbug: ignore obvious evidence of malfeasance on Hillary!'s
Such claims have never had much currency before. It's reminiscent of the Ebola epidemic in the U.S., which just happened to end on Nov 4, 2014. mudbug: if the parties were reversed. No one is above the law, and the law should be applied equally. More than likely, this "investigation" will end no later than Nov 8, 2016.
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 09:12
(Reply)
You missed the point on the ebola crisis. The point is NOT that some people who feared an epidemic turned out to be wrong. The point IS that ebola should never have been allowed to enter the country in the first place and the administration did a crappy job protecting us from it. We were lucky. The prognosticators who feared the worst could have been right. The crisis also exposed the massive influx of "immigrants" from West Africa. Who knew that 150 West Africans a day were "coming to America"? Again another example of the administration working against the American citizens instead of for them.
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1
GoneWithTheWind
on
2015-08-16 10:02
(Reply)
GoneWithTheWind: The point IS that ebola should never have been allowed to enter the country in the first place and the administration did a crappy job protecting us from it.
There were a total of eleven cases in the U.S., most of whom were medical evacuees. While Ebola is a deadly disease, it is relatively easy to contain as it is only spread by contact. In any case, interest in the Ebola epidemic virtually ended on Nov 4, 2014. Imagine the coincidence! https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=ebola&geo=US&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 10:16
(Reply)
"While Ebola is a deadly disease, it is relatively easy to contain as it is only spread by contact."
Do not under estimate the enemy. A lot of Western trained medical professionals with all the right equipment and training caught ebola. Many of them did in fact speculate that there was another way to catch it other than physically touching an infected person with bare hands. The theory is that it is possible to catch ebola from body fluids ejected by coughs and sneezes not to mention any body fluids. But again you miss the point. It is incredibly stupid to take a localized deadly disease into another country where that disease does not exist. It is totally contrary to good sense and medical science. Letting anyone fly directly to our country from these areas of infection was pure stupidity on the part of the administration. But then so wasn't allowing tens of thousands of children and adults in from Central and South America and placing them within our communities. It is almost as though Obama wanted to create a health crisis.
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
GoneWithTheWind
on
2015-08-16 14:11
(Reply)
GoneWithTheWind: It is incredibly stupid to take a localized deadly disease into another country where that disease does not exist.
It was more than reasonable to bring home medical personnel who had contracted the disease overseas working in less than ideal conditions. Leaving them overseas would have made it more difficult to recruit medical experts necessary to treat those at the epicenter of the outbreak. While it is reasonable to reconsider protocols that have failed, using it as a political cudgel actually damages the response. You have yet to respond to the point we raised. Meanwhile, the Canadians may have a working vaccine. http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/ebola-vaccine-from-canada-seems-to-work-in-trial-in-guinea-who-1.3175101
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 14:55
(Reply)
"It was more than reasonable to bring home medical personnel who had contracted the disease overseas working in less than ideal conditions."
I disagree. What would have been reasonable is to treat them right in place rather than transporting sick and communicable people to a country where that disease doesn't exist. As an alternative a single hospital (preferably in country) could have been designated to treat all medical personal that became infected. But to transport them to the U.S. or Europe was an unnecessary and foolish risk.
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
GoneWithTheWind
on
2015-08-16 17:49
(Reply)
GoneWithTheWind: What would have been reasonable is to treat them right in place rather than transporting sick and communicable people to a country where that disease doesn't exist.
Experts in the medical field obviously disagreed. Meanwhile, expert medical researchers may have developed an effective vaccine.
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-17 08:30
(Reply)
"experts disagreed"
Maybe. Maybe what really happened is those experts were looking out for themselves with total disregard for the citizens. If these "experts" want to go into a foriegn country of their own choice to fight a deadly highly communicable disease then they need to deal with the consequences. Don't play the hero and then wimp out and put the entire population of the U.S. at risk when you contract the disease yourself. The rules are and should be that you quarantine people when they get these kinds of diseases not spread them around the country. This was an abuse of power. No one was watching and the elite did what they wanted to do. That shouldn't be allowed.
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
GoneWithTheWind
on
2015-08-17 10:41
(Reply)
GoneWithTheWind: Maybe. Maybe what really happened is those experts were looking out for themselves with total disregard for the citizens.
Right. The doctors who go to dangerous infectious hotspots in order to stop an epidemic are "looking out for themselves with total disregard for the citizens".
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-17 10:47
(Reply)
Now you got it!! That is exactly the case. Quarantine means you stay put and don't endanger others.
#9.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
GoneWithTheWind
on
2015-08-17 13:00
(Reply)
"For example, we find that her email server was maintained by a contractor that did not have the proper security clearance."
If it was a private server, why exactly would the contractor need one? Am I missing something? Is it because she's a former First Lady? Would her plumber or cable guy need a security clearance too? I hope you're joking... but in case you're not...
Hillary! used her private email server exclusively while she was Secretary of State. She had to (and we now know that she did) receive sensitive emails on her server. The people who maintain her server would have access to those emails - ergo, the need for a security clearance. mudbug: Hillary! used her private email server exclusively while she was Secretary of State. She had to (and we now know that she did) receive sensitive emails on her server.
John Kerry is reportedly the first cabinet secretary to rely on his official government email address, so this is all new stuff. The government is trying to improve security, which is the nature of the current process. It has nothing to do with anyone breaking the law, at least based on what is known so far. The political noise is just that, noise. "TrustNet found that at least 3 digital certificates were used with clintonemail.com since 2009. Operators of clintonemail.com obtained these certificates so the site could be uniquely distinguished (another clintonemail.com would not show as being secured without the certificate) and the site would use strong encryption to keep data transmissions private." https://www.venafi.com/blog/post/what-venafi-trustnet-tells-us-about-the-clinton-email-server
#9.1.2.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 09:21
(Reply)
QUOTE: Alarmists are Growing Desperate in Their Efforts to Influence Public Opinion Generally, it's considered prudent to raise the alarm at the first outbreak of fire rather than waiting for the entire town to be engulfed in flames. You might remember that they did raise the alarm in the 60's and early 70's when it became obvious to 97% of the scientists that we were entering another ice age. You remember the scare stories when the temperatures went down alarmingly from the highs of 1934, the fear, the cries for more funding for scientists, etc. But no! It was just another scam gone wrong. The scientists very wisely picked the year 1934 to start their graphs and charts so that it emphasized the dramatic decrease in temperature but that damned mother nature double crossed them and temperatures moderated. But by the 90's another opportunity presented itself as temperatures returned to normal and actually increased from the lows of the late 60's. So once again 97% of the "scientists" claimed that global warming was going to destroy the earth and joined hands with socialists/marxists/communists and conveniently blamed it all on "profit" (key scary music). The corporations were destroying the earth and if we would just tax everyone and give the money to the scientists and politicians and raise the price of energy by 300% or more we could escape this terrible fate of burning to death. Gone were the temperature readings from the 1930's!! First they just ignored them (an inconvenient truth). Then they altered them to make 1934 seem downright pleasant. Because in fact it was warmer in the 30's then it has been since the 30's and that would blow the lid off the meme that CO2 is SOOOOO powerful that it is warming the earth. Then mother nature hit them again with no warming for the last 19 years; none, zip, nada! But no worries with their magic pen they found some warming and simply modified the temperature data to fit their agenda. After all how else can you force higher enegry costs and less jobs on the people except by hiding the truth?
Frankly I'm enjoying the show. Watching thousands of warmies flying to resorts on hundreds of fuel devouring jets to have their secret meetings. Watching global warming demonstrations being snowed and frozen out. Watching the latest frauds and lies to keep pushing this incredible lie. Watching the denigration and intimidation of scientists who don't agree and threaten the ficticious 97% consensus. What could possibly be next? Perhaps the dictator in the white house will eliminate coal by fiat and destroy an entire industry and set a disasterous depression in motion... NO! That would be stupid... GoneWithTheWind: You might remember that they did raise the alarm in the 60's and early 70's when it became obvious to 97% of the scientists that we were entering another ice age.
That is incorrect. Global cooling was always a minority opinion. There are two major anthropic influences; particulates, which cool the planet, and greenhouse gases, which warm the planet. It was soon apparent that greenhouse gases would predominate, especially when developed countries started to control their particulate pollution. And yet with CO2 increasing at a constant rate there has been ZERO warming for the last 19 years. There has been ZERO (or very close to ZERO) warming for the last hundred years. The 97% of scientists have had to alter the data to further the fraud.
See: https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2015/08/15/fixing-nick-stokes-fixing-nick-stokes-fud/ Especially the last chart "average USHCN adjustments". GoneWithTheWind: And yet with CO2 increasing at a constant rate there has been ZERO warming for the last 19 years.
2014 was the warmest year in the instrumental record. The ten warmest years (except 1998) have been since 2000. 2015 is now slated to be even warmer, with this year's El Niño "significant and strengthening."
#10.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-15 12:37
(Reply)
Instrument temperature readings have been subject to "adjustment" and many readings are suspect because of their placement (near A/C exhaust, above black top, some that were in rural areas when they were set up are now in urban areas, etc.) where satellite data has consistently showed there hasn't been any warming for almost two decades.
#10.1.1.1.1.1
mudbug
on
2015-08-15 13:35
(Reply)
So what are you saying... That El Nino causes warming and not CO2? Or that CO2 causes El Ninos? Or that global warming DID NOT cause the California drought and it does cause El Ninos which will be beneficial to California and the Southwest? Or what? Exactly.
#10.1.1.1.1.2
GoneWithTheWind
on
2015-08-15 13:43
(Reply)
mudbug: Instrument temperature readings have been subject to "adjustment"
Of course. It's called "science". To determine whether the adjustments are valid requires looking at the actual methodology. mudbug: and many readings are suspect because of their placement (near A/C exhaust, above black top, some that were in rural areas when they were set up are now in urban areas, etc.) There are a number of ways to determine the extent of the urban heat island effect. A simple way is to simply not include urban stations in the trend calculation. Guess what the results are? GoneWithTheWind: So what are you saying... That El Nino causes warming and not CO2? El Niño is a natural fluctuation. Greenhouse gases cause an overall warming. As the atmosphere warms, El Niño temperatures also increase. 2014 was a record year. 2015 is on course to break that record. When El Niño subsides, the Earth's surface will cool somewhat, but overall temperatures will continue to trend upwards over the long run. http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/18l8gy/unusually-large-snowstorm
#10.1.1.1.1.3
Zachriel
on
2015-08-15 15:38
(Reply)
So what is the value of a temperature station next to an A/C exhaust?
#10.1.1.1.1.3.1
mudbug
on
2015-08-15 16:29
(Reply)
mudbug: So what is the value of a temperature station next to an A/C exhaust?
Doesn't matter if we have the same trend when not included problematic stations.
#10.1.1.1.1.3.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 09:22
(Reply)
Utterly false unless you use a very narrow definition of "record".
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cHhMa7ARDDg/SmDoZBIkB3I/AAAAAAAABAc/KkUzrz2abwI/s1600-h/Vostok-140Kc.jpg
#10.1.1.1.1.4
Ten
on
2015-08-16 07:45
(Reply)
See also:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_July_2015_v6.png
#10.1.1.1.1.5
Ten
on
2015-08-16 08:10
(Reply)
Ten: Utterly false unless you use a very narrow definition of "record".
The term was "instrumental record". There were no temperature instruments thousands of years ago.
#10.1.1.1.1.6
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 09:25
(Reply)
In other words your assertion is highly conditional, even if we assume facts not in evidence (that the last few years are uniquely warmer even among among whatever narrow use you allow. There were no temperature instruments even scores of years ago.
#10.1.1.1.1.6.1
Ten
on
2015-08-16 10:35
(Reply)
Ten: In other words your assertion ...
... was accurate. Ten: There were no temperature instruments even scores of years ago. Or significant amounts of anthropic greenhouse gases.
#10.1.1.1.1.6.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 12:26
(Reply)
Evidently wrong both times. Ever really consider why that is?
I know: AGW is a wish or whim looking for validation. It's like Maggie's interminable carnivorous group mindset, using scant "science" to justify itself when greater objective reality simply lends it none. Or like kneejerk pro-war habit covering itself with the flag. We see what we want when we try to bolster our bad preconceptions and assumptions. Or our bad religions. Typically, we also deny real evidence, eve going so far as to call our lack of evidence "science". It's wishfulness, and when it's also activistic, it harms and impairs and oppresses others just like all dysfunctions eventually do in society. Look, there is no evidence of AGW. It doesn't exist. It cannot be fabricated truthfully, factually, or objectively and so it isn't. There is no common sense you can lend it. There is no precedent for such a phenomenon - material or intellectual - but it carries on for awhile because proponents want so badly to will it into truth.
#10.1.1.1.1.6.1.1.1
Ten
on
2015-08-16 14:07
(Reply)
Ten: Look, there is no evidence of AGW.
Most of your comment is just handwaving. The hypothesis of greenhouse warming is based on fundamental physics. See Arrhenius, On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground, London, Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science 1896. The test of the hypothesis is whether the surface is warming, and whether the stratosphere is cooling. The evidence supports both tests. The open question in climate science isn't the existence of the greenhouse effect, which is beyond reasonable dispute, but climate sensitivity, that is, the amplification due to increases in atmospheric water vapor. A variety of measures put climate sensitivity at 2-4°C per doubling of CO2.
#10.1.1.1.1.6.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 15:11
(Reply)
Handwaving? It's an informed perspective based on the science of the matter, which I've been investigating for 20 years. From that I can make specific conclusions about wishful AGW believers who double-down on out-dated theories, citing science that just isn't there.
Am I going to write the AGW faithful a book? It's already been done, plus I've seen how they react to specific facts. Why would I continually re-address a science denier with the same material, expecting a different reaction? Look at this thread alone. Obviously, zealotry is not objectivity. Fitting data to a belief is not science. The onus is on the AGW hysteric to prove the thesis, not continually cite antiquated theories, the use of which is not at all in line with either data or far more advanced real findings and their theories. The AGW disciples have proved no such whim whatsoever. That's a statement of fact. It doesn't matter what antiquated theory you care to cite if you cannot make the data confirm it. You cannot.
#10.1.1.1.1.6.1.1.1.1.1
Ten
on
2015-08-17 07:28
(Reply)
Ten: Handwaving?
Yes. We pointed out that 2014 was the warmest year in the instrumental record. Nothing substantive has been added to the sub-thread since.
#10.1.1.1.1.6.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-17 08:38
(Reply)
How about I just declare you the winner and then we'll have two. Then we can end the conversation.
We can also drop the facade that AGW hysterics are interested in science unless they can window the sh*t out of it. But now I'm just repeating myself.
#10.1.1.1.1.6.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Ten
on
2015-08-17 09:18
(Reply)
Ten: http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_July_2015_v6.png
The graph clearly shows a warming trend. 2014 was the third warmest in the UAH record for the lower troposphere; but just as important, the UAH record shows a cooling trend for the stratosphere, consistent with greenhouse warming, while eliminating most other causes of warming.
#10.1.1.1.1.7
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 09:36
(Reply)
The graph clearly shows about thirty warmer years than either 2014 or 2015 just since 1980.
I'm curious, having isolated data to only include roughly the last century or two, how narrowly will you isolate data within your result to back your claim about 2014 and 2015 for which there is absolutely no evidence for? Don't mistake my point: at what point is the data so narrowly defined that the only conclusion is that the earth is catastrophically warming? That is the AGW aim, isn't it? See, the science clearly shows there is no CO2-related warming, that of what warming there may be it's neither CO2 or long term or catastrophic (if it exists at all), and that instead, the sun's two energetic cycles track precisely with natural temperature variations on Earth, with the natural terran system regulating temperatures within those cycles to a remarkable degree.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1
Ten
on
2015-08-16 10:47
(Reply)
Ten: The graph clearly shows about thirty warmer years than either 2014 or 2015 just since 1980.
2014 is the third warmest year for the lower troposhere per UAH. QUOTE: rank, year, anomaly 1 1998 0.42 2 2010 0.40 3 2014 0.27 4 2005 0.26 5 2013 0.24 6 2002 0.22 7 2009 0.21 8 2007 0.20 9 2003 0.19 10 2006 0.19 Ten: I'm curious, having isolated data to only include roughly the last century or two, how narrowly will you isolate data within your result to back your claim about 2014 and 2015 for which there is absolutely no evidence for? We referred to data in the instrumental record, from about 1880. You referred to the satellite data, from 1978. Not sure what you mean by "absolutely no evidence". You're the one who cited UAH, which shows a clear warming trend in the lower troposphere of +0.128 °C/decade. It also shows a cooling trend in the stratosphere. Ten: Don't mistake my point: at what point is the data so narrowly defined that the only conclusion is that the earth is catastrophically warming? The hypothesis of global warming isn't supported just by a correlation, but by basic physics, the fundamentals of which were discovered over a century ago. Ten: See, the science clearly shows there is no CO2-related warming, that of what warming there may be it's neither CO2 or long term or catastrophic (if it exists at all), and that instead, the sun's two energetic cycles track precisely with natural temperature variations on Earth, with the natural terran system regulating temperatures within those cycles to a remarkable degree. If the surface warming were due to solar heating, then the stratosphere would also be warming, rather than cooling. The cooling stratosphere is a signature of the greenhouse effect.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 12:41
(Reply)
We referred to data in the instrumental record, from about 1880. You referred to the satellite data, from 1978.
I referred to both and I can cite you dozens of other, confirming data that reinforces this reality across just about any timeframe you care to examine. You cannot point to any temperature data and claim AGW. Not sure what you mean by "absolutely no evidence". You're the one who cited UAH, which shows a clear warming trend in the lower troposphere of +0.128 °C/decade. It also shows a cooling trend in the stratosphere. There's absolutely no evidence that, for example, an equity rose or fell on the stock market over time unless or until you select the time window in which to analyze it. As I mentioned, you can snapshot the field of view and get whatever effect you wish but in the large picture - and even in so small a picture as to make your (and my) assertion completely arbitrary and specious - there is no AGW, whether real or expected by someone's wish. It doesn't exist because it cannot exist until such time as the data consistently holds the theories true. This is certainly not the case for AGW zealots. The overall system is not understood. The hypothesis of global warming isn't supported just by a correlation, but by basic physics, the fundamentals of which were discovered over a century ago. No, it isn't. The known physics do not confirm your assertion because naturally to us they are mutable, changing from our perspective per our ongoing research. The physics of solar action and inputs to Earth - Birkeland currents, the Earth's plasma sheath, and so forth - are about a half to a third as old as your outdated and exclusionary model (while AGW modeling is notoriously inaccurate, by the way), and multiple solar cycling beyond the conventional 11 year period was discovered only this Summer. Similarly, relativity, red shift, the age of the Universe, quantum mechanics, and the big bang itself are under tremendous pressure, and science - the real kind - is questioning cosmological assumptions that can never be measured but have formed a couple centuries of what now appear to be false assumptions about the nature of the universe. To expect AGW to similarly be settled science subject to no new data or theories about heat drivers is not a claim you want to make. The Earth's heat driver is the Sun. It is not CO2. That is a scientific fact. If the surface warming were due to solar heating, then the stratosphere would also be warming, rather than cooling. The cooling stratosphere is a signature of the greenhouse effect. We'll see, but given your fanciful, deeply limited assumptions so far, I wouldn't bet on it.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.1.1
Ten
on
2015-08-16 14:29
(Reply)
Ten: I referred to both and I can cite you dozens of other, confirming data that reinforces this reality across just about any timeframe you care to examine.
Both support the warming trend. Ten: There's absolutely no evidence that That's nonsensical. You cited UAH yourself, and it clearly shows a warming trend in the lower troposphere. Ten: The overall system is not understood. The basics of greenhouse warming is understood. Greenhouse gases cause the surface to warm. How the heat is distributed is chaotic, and difficult to model, but the overall warming is based on fundamental physics — more energy in the Earth's climate system. Ten: The Earth's heat driver is the Sun. It is not CO2. That is a scientific fact. In fact, without the greenhouse effect, the Earth's surface would be a chilly -18°C rather than the balmy +15°C that it is. This is also fundamental thermodynamics. Ten: We'll see Stratospheric cooling due to the greenhouse effect is based on fundamental thermodynamics.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 15:07
(Reply)
As I've been saying, data shoved at faith isn't science.
Stratospheric cooling due to the greenhouse effect is based on fundamental thermodynamics. With regard to AGW, it most certainly is not. ^ is a perfect example of wishful AGW belief shoving uncorrelated data at a presumption and hoping it connects. It doesn't. I suggest you examine the actual findings. https://climategrog.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=902
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.1.1.1.1
Ten
on
2015-08-17 08:20
(Reply)
Ten: I suggest you examine the actual findings.
Yes, there's a clear trend. https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/strattempanom1960-2011.gif The data is consistent with increases in greenhouse gases and changes in ozone.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-17 09:25
(Reply)
As has been shown, step functions in temperature related to intermittent natural pollutants - in the case volcanic aerosol forcing - are not linear changes in temperature related to AGW, which are not present in the data.
Such forcing manifests is a first order effect. The CO2-AGW claim in this case is a second and even third order presumption. Further, regressions to the mean temp are in that same data, just swamped by the step functions. The AGW claim is refuted. Believers may wish to consult the scientists making the finding that refutes it and review their statements. Again: The AGW claim is a wishful presumption not borne out by the data or the phenomenon behind the data. Conclusion: The significant lag and ensuing post-eruption recovery period underlines the inadequacy of simple linear regression and multivariate regression in assessing the magnitude of various climate ‘forcings’ and their respective climate sensitivities. Use of such methods will suffer from regression dilution, omitted variable bias and can lead to seriously erroneous attributions. https://climategrog.wordpress.com/2015/01/17/on-determination-of-tropical-feedbacks/ Again, there is no correlation between man-made CO2 and global temperature. Correlating bias and theory is not science.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Ten
on
2015-08-17 10:37
(Reply)
Ten: As has been shown, step functions in temperature related to intermittent natural pollutants - in the case volcanic aerosol forcing - are not linear changes in temperature related to AGW, which are not present in the data.
Volcanic aerosols warm the stratosphere and cool the surface. Meanwhile, reductions in ozone-depleting chemicals have tended to reduce cooling in the stratosphere. Nonetheless, the overall trend is down. https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/strattempanom1960-2011.gif
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-17 10:55
(Reply)
Ten: the natural terran system regulating temperatures within those cycles to a remarkable degree.
Actually, the Earth seems to naturally oscillate between ice ages and ice-free periods, primarily due to orbital variations and changes in albedo, but also due to changes to greenhouse gases.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.2
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 12:47
(Reply)
Well, no. You're making it up now. Either show real proof or admit you're dealing in a reality as you want it to be.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.2.1
Ten
on
2015-08-16 14:10
(Reply)
Ten: You're making it up now.
You want evidence of the ice ages? Seriously? Evidence is geological, chemical, and paleontological. Where do you want to start?
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.2.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 15:14
(Reply)
You're diverting. Why would that be?
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.2.1.1.1
Ten
on
2015-08-16 18:55
(Reply)
Here's an overview.
Evidence for ice ages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Evidence_for_ice_ages
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.2.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-17 08:33
(Reply)
Give this a viewing...and remember that the state of the art is not a 100 year old theory. It rarely is.
https://youtu.be/TPRdb5x3yi8 That clip is just an example of what's being found, too.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.2.2
Ten
on
2015-08-16 14:53
(Reply)
Correction: years should have read data points. The overall point is not altered.
#10.1.1.1.1.7.1.3
Ten
on
2015-08-16 14:50
(Reply)
Maybe so, but it was big in TIME and NEWSWEEK, so it didn't seem to be a minority opinion.
They sell magazines — or did.
#10.1.1.2.1
Zachriel
on
2015-08-16 09:37
(Reply)
I'm worried about the coming ice age Science promised back in the 1970s. Generally, it's considered prudent to raise the alarm at the first outbreak of snow rather than waiting for the entire town to be engulfed in glaciers.
Remember nature never responds to human activity.
Take those pesky drones for example... It is not nature red in tooth and claw, but it does look like there may be a problem with the red wire, the blue wire, all the wires. And there were claws involved. Re: Do you have the nerve to watch this?
As somebody once said, it doesn't take all kinds, there just are all kinds. On Sharon Stone...yes, she looks incredible for 57. However, I will point out that she never birthed children. That does a number on the boobs and stomach that only surgery can repair...especially if you breastfed. No way to go from a 34B to a 34DD without some sagging and stretch marks!
Good for Sharon, however! She has been through some difficult health problems in recent years and still manages to look amazing. Good Grief! You should rename this Zachriel's Farm.
he's got an obsession with the weather and a defend-hildabeest-at-all-costs mission from the voices in his head.
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Tracked: Aug 16, 09:43