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Saturday, October 18. 2014
Political quote du jour
From Roger Scruton's new book, via AVI:
Posted by The News Junkie at 13:06 | Comments (17) | Trackback (1)
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Peter Robinson: Conservatives' rhetorical disadvantage: Conservatism starts from a sentiment that all mature people can readily share: the sentiment that good things are easily destroyed, but not easily created.
This is an excellent statement of conservative principle. Notice how he ascribes it to "all mature people". The problem is that he doesn't match that statement with an equally valid statement of the liberal principle.
Peter Robinson: Their position is true but boring, that of their opponents exciting but false.
What? Liberals advocate easy destruction?
Of course not. While mature conservatives understand the need for change, but are concerned about the preservation of traditional institutions, mature liberals understand the need to preserve the good in traditional institutions while pushing for reform. Too fast of change, and society can come apart. Too slow of change, society will stagnate, and may yet still come apart. There is an ebb and flow to social progress.
This should be true, and we devoutly hope for it. But I work in human services and can tell you it is not common among liberals. It exists in lip-service, but when the chips are down, educated, mature liberals who have experience with authority and contradictions will nonetheless revert to primitive tribalism in their politics.
If you say that much of this is true of conservatives, fair enough. Maybe the conservatives I spend my time with are the exceptions.
Studies show that both liberals and conservatives can exhibit tribalism, though it is more common as a political stance on the right.
I'm not sure how any study could show that, and would love to have you show your work.
If it's Haidt, I maintain his research shows the opposite, as much as one can see inside heads. Additionally, his original research was designed from an unseen liberal slant, which he has since been correcting.
Actually, we were thinking of the Frimer study of authority, which seemed to show that liberals defer to their own authorities just as conservatives do. The symmetry is not as strong as Frimer suggests, but still supports the basic point.
As for the conservative political stance, that's virtually definitional.
#22.214.171.124.1 Zachriel on 2014-10-20 07:59 (Reply)
Well, you were fine until that last.
Conservatives may be tribal, but they have 1,000 tribes, so they don't win elections. Democrats tend to be a coalition - nothing wrong with that, but it is short on principle. Perhaps in a pluralistic society, it's the best anyone can hope for.
Republicans tend to have to compromise - with each other - to get elected, and their disparate groups all tended to get to their positions by hating compromise. They will go down to defeat in noble isolation forever. They will die with their boots on, but they will die. And be proud of the miserable world they have left to posterity, because goshdarnit, they stood firm.
The Democrats strategy is far stronger. When they have crusaders who will go to the mat for principle, they give them jobs and awards, keeping them in the fold even while selling them out.
Does it all sound too cynical? It is. I'm getting old, and I don't see change on the horizon. I call myself "postliberal," and the distinction of that with "conservative" hasn't moved much in the last 20 years.
#126.96.36.199.1.1 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2014-10-21 15:57 (Reply)
Liberals balance equality and liberty. Different people strike different balances. Since the Renaissance, there has been a historic trend towards greater equality and greater liberty.
Yeah, good luck finding those mature liberals who give two hoots about "traditional institutions", I'm pretty sure they've been purged by the social justice elites in their ranks...
Conservatism is the belief that people have rights and that these rights trump government's rules/laws. Liberalism is more like the beehive in it's belief that the hive is all important and the worker bee can be sacrificed for the good of the hive (or queen bee).
GoneWithTheWind: Liberalism is more like the beehive in it's belief that the hive is all important and the worker bee can be sacrificed for the good of the hive (or queen bee).
Actually, liberalism formed in response to a conservative and rigid class structure.
Yeah right! You are kidding of course. I can sum up the liberal point of view with a quote from one of your greatest leaders: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need".
Yeah right! You must be a comedian in your spare time. But Liberialism embraces Marxism and THAT is the point. Liberalism embraces socialism/communism/fascism. Every liberal organization in the U.S. has ties to the American communist party. The majority of the funding for the DNC comes from socialist and communist organizers. Our esteemed president was a community organizer for communist fronted groups. In fact he was a red diaper baby who learned it at his mothers/grandmothers knee. Liberalism is dedicated to destroying the middle class and socialism/communism is their preferred weapon for the task. Ask yourself why young liberals love Che Guevara so much. In fact I would bet that you, Zach, hava Che Guevara tee shirt somewhere in your closet from the old days when you attended UC Berkeley.
#188.8.131.52.1 GoneWithTheWind on 2014-10-21 10:38 (Reply)
GoneWithTheWind: But Liberialism embraces Marxism and THAT is the point.
Hardly anybody embraces Marxism. Not even in China where the Communist Party still rules.
#184.108.40.206.1.1 Zachriel on 2014-10-21 10:47 (Reply)
Liberalism embraces Marxism but must decieve others into thinking it isn't Marxism/socialism/communism. This is how the left works; they sell you one thing and give you something different. If they told the truth they wouldn't get elected. Of course they embrace Marxism but they call it liberalism! Pretty smart/evil, that's what despotic political parties do. That's what liberalism is.
The last of the foliage is changing from green to yellow and orange, meaning we're at or just past peak color here on the south side of Lake Winnpesaukee. The on-again/off-again sun and rain certainly made performing yesterday's chore...
Tracked: Oct 19, 11:53