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Sunday, June 29. 2014
This poll did not ask about legal vs. illegal, it was just general. I think Americans feel that we already have enough unemployed, able-bodied, dependent people. Country is full of them, almost everywhere. At the same time, I don't think anybody minds legal immigrant math, physics, and computer geniuses from China and India. Lots of them in NYC, taking jobs from decadent and lazy Americans. It's not about race, it's about what you have to contribute to society.
If people want to change the immigration laws, then change them, but open borders ought to apply to Canada and China and The Philippines, not just Mexico.
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"I don't think anybody minds legal immigrant math, physics, and computer geniuses from China and India. Lots of them in NYC, taking jobs from decadent and lazy Americans"
I think they do and that statement is totally inaccurate. Those "geniuses" are indeed smart and motivated, but that doesn't make them more valuable then a smart motivated American. What does is that they will work 80 -100 hours a week of 40 hours pay and lower pay then the job pays American workers. They aren't doing jobs Americans can't or won't do they are simply willng to work like slaves to make their employer billionaires. Yes the American worker in those fields should also be trying to make their employer billionaires but not as slaves. The H1B trade is a slave trade that is displacing smart American math, physics, and computer geniuses. We don't "need" immigrants. We have too many people and can't even employee them all. We have smart educated Americans who can do these jobs what we need is a moratorium on immigration and end to the H1B (and related visa programs) and to revoke their visas and send them home. That single step alone will employee over 1 million American high tech workers. What we need is laws to fine employers who hire illegals and a real effort by federal, state and local law enforcement to find and deport illegal aliens. And last we need to end welfare and all federal aid and subsidies that attract ilegals and enable Americans to be "decadent and lazy".
I worked 80 hrs/week for years, and so did my daughter. What's wrong with that? Actually, that daughter now works about 100 hrs/wk - for herself.
Lots of people used to work two jobs. That's not slavery - that's working hard.
Indeed! I worked 80 hours a week as well. BUT, I got paid for it and I don't mean overtime pay my pay was commensurate with that requirement and it was the contract I agreed to. I might add that I worked with many H1B workers who were paid less and worked more then myself. But you are begging the question. If H1B workers and many immigrants legal and illegal are only here to take American jobs at lower pay the question is why should Americans want this? I understand why employers want it but why should the majority of Americans who vote want it? And more importantly shouldn't the citizens decide this question? Not just employers, politicians and other special interests. I think we can't continue to ignore this problem. I also think that the misinformation, such as Americans aren't educated or smart enough to be engineers and computer experts is intended to confuse potential voters for the benefit of the special interests. Ask the thousands of American engineers who have lost jobs to the H1B's if they are too stupid or too lazy to compete for the job or were simply laid off because H1B's could be exploited for less money. Ask the taxpayers in the small Texas towns that are going bankrupt because of the influx of illegal aliens, whose hospitals are closing because the emergency room bills are not paid, whose children are becoming ill with exotic diseases all thanks to uncontrolled and illegal immigration. Why wouldn't it make sense for the government/politicians to put the interest of citizens ahead of the interest of people who crossed our border illegally for the sole purpose of stealing from our overly generous welfare system.
If H1B workers and many immigrants legal and illegal are only here to take American jobs at lower pay the question is why should Americans want this?
then they your employer was violating the law, and you should have Informed. maybe you'd get a reward, or maybe a lesson in H-1B law.
what I'm concerned about is that you're spreading false information about this program.
this is a labor condition application for H-1Bs. ever heard of it?
Item 7(e). Prevailing Wage Rate and its Source. Enter the
prevailing wage rate in terms of the amount per hour, week,
year, etc. If the employer is replying on a wage determination
obtained from a State Employment Security Agency, check the
box marked "SESA." If the employer is using another source,
check the "Other" box and specify such other source: i.e.,
published wage survey, or other source utilized by the employer
to determine the prevailing wage for the occupational
classification in which H-1B nonimmigrants will be employed,
e.g., "collective bargaining agreement," or "Bureau of Labor
Statistics Occupational Compensation Survey, Denver, Colorado,
Metropolitan Area." (Only 1 box can be checked per line item).
Item 8(a). The employer must attest that H-1B nonimmigrants
will be paid wages which are at least the higher of the actual
wage level paid by the employer to all other individuals with
similar experience and qualifications for the specific employment
in question or the prevailing wage level for the occupational
classification in the area of intended employment.
Frigate you are naive and don't even know what you don't know.
its one thing to say the system is being abused, which is partially an honest assessment that could be corrected. its another to misrepresent the law, which is what you're doing and which is completely dishonest.
so the only question now is, why you misrepresenting the law on H-1B visas?
I haven't misrepresented the law. My father in law was also an H1B and the company could have easily hired someone local for his job. He worked here for 43 years until he passed away. Every year his boss had to justify his employment and every year he did that he kept a citizen from being hired. So the law isn't followed and what I represented was the reality/facts. I have known perhaps 50 to 60 H1B employees and everyone of them could have been American citizens hired right out of college instead of H1B's right out of college.
I quoted the law and proved you misrepresented it. whether or not you or your company routinely flouted it doesn't change the fact that you were not honest in presenting what the law says.
In case anybody is still following this thread...
It seemed more than likely that often employers tailored the job description such that nobody in the US would meet it. It was my understanding that that allowed the employer to get workers from outside the US. Often in tech jobs, there is a wide range of salaries and since the H1B applicant was the only one who met the job description (because the employer said), his salary could be on a different scale from the US employees.
I was never the employer so I don't know that my supposition is necessarily absolutely correct, but in my experience as a tech contractor who sometimes competed with H1B, it sure seemed to fit. This is not even a new trick. When I used to work on the Space Shuttle Tank, my employer actively courted and hired a lot of folks from Great Britain. Many of them were great people who were good at what they did, but they didn't have any skills that Americans didn't have and I had to wonder how they could do that when there were so many engineers in the US without jobs (early '80s).
So by the law, there would be no benefit to hiring an H1B worker over a US worker, but in practice, I don't think that was the case.
"The H1B trade is a slave trade"
I'm sure you don't know what an H-1B is. So let me axe you, on what late night radio program did you hear about them?
"They aren't doing jobs Americans can't or won't do they are simply willng to work like slaves to make their employer billionaires. Yes the American worker in those fields should also be trying to make their employer billionaires but not as slaves."
Your statement implies that YOU, better than the free market, know what the "correct" wage should be for such work.
I'm enough of a libertarian to agree with your point. But that wasn't my point. I don't care what the employer pays, for all I care they can pay the minimum wage. My point is they should not have the option to hire anyone but a citizen to work in this country. The myth is that they must hire Indians or Chinese because no American worker can be found to do the work. That is not true. They hire H1B workers because the worker is willing to put in 100 hours a week in trade for living in the U.S. and gaining citizenship. My issue with this is I don't think corporations should be driving our immigration policy.
"the worker is willing to put in 100 hours a week in trade for living in the U.S. and gaining citizenship"
and who wants citizens with a work ethic like that?
I pay a salary. I'd hire a diehard ChiCom over a citizen if she'd put in 100 hour weeks and did it competently.
I have often witnessed how the liberals do "community organizing". There is a well proven/well documented process for getting people of color to demonstrate in the streets--to march in protest.
Now--tell me--will white people march in the streets to protest this illegal immigration? What organization do we have in place that can "organize" such a demonstration?
there's the klan and the nazis, and the wannabe klans and wannabe nazis, meaning I'm not in the least interested in community organizing anything.
besides, (1) I have a life, (2) I like my gardener and maid service.
Open boarders with Canada? Not worth considering at this point.
The point about H1B visas is that companies LIE in order to get immigrant workers. The company has to claim that there aren't skilled American workers to take the work. They also LIE about the wages they are paying. There may be 'rules' in place about how much they must pay H1B visa holders, but they know how to get around this. You can do a simple Google search about H1B visa holders being paid less than their American counterparts...there are articles all over the place from a variety of sources showing that this IS true.
I think we need to go back to how we originally handled immigrants: have them go through a health screening before we allow them in (HIV, TB, pregnant - yes, pregnant - etc. and you should not be allowed in); also a need to prove you have a skillset that is needed in this country. I mean TRULY needed. If not, no visa, no immigrant status. There are enough people in the world that we should be able to pick and choose who we let in. Why not the healthiest, best and brightest? It could even be that an immigrant could prove a low-wage worker is needed at Wal-Mart, for heaven's sake. So it would not exclude the poor to a certain degree.
It could easily be accomplished with a computer. And a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross section of necessary skills.
It is also a mighty convenient circumstance of the program that H1B employees have to be "sponsored" by their employer and it is much more difficult for them to move around to other jobs than a US citizen. They are a modern form of indentured servents.
except that they can change sponsors. the "indentured servant" argument has been dead since 2000. and an H1B visa is also a road to legal permanent residency.
Therein lies the problem Frigate--if "we the people of Anglo ancestry" try to organize a protest we are immediately labeled "Nazi", or "KKK". Sooo--our elections are corrupted; and we are not able to speak in reasoned dialogue with the opposing side, how then are we to make our voices heard? Don't tell me through the social media, because the liberals have already demonstrated that their community organizers could organize that also. BUT, we on the conservative front concerned about immigration will not even be able to that level of organization organized! Why is that? Oh yes--I remember--someone will call us ugly names and we will just wilt and back off.
That is true, but we just have to learn to stop worrying about what they label us. If enough of us speak out and demonstrate publicly than it becomes more difficult to make the racist, nazi, etc., labels stick. It is time to confront these bullies and push back.
Once again we are seeing visible proof that corporations and the communist daughters of corporate leaders actually do have the same goals. Total control of the population. Would someone please clarify for me why it is that our corporations collaborate so easily with the communist crowd? I would like to hear your explanations. After all the corporations are supposed to want free markets, and the communists are opposed to that ideal. Just exactly where are the links? Maybe Barrister would like to answer.
Since when do corporations ever want free markets? They spend billions on lobbyists to ensure the market is tilted in their favor. They have to show 5%+ growth year after year even after their core product/service is saturated or outdated.
"Total control of the population."
I sit on the board of a small non-profit. why on earth do you think we want to "totally control you"?
but if you insist, would you pick up a pair of 51's tickets?
Frigate is sailing on a dream sea.
There are numerous YouTube self-promotion videos put out by MAJOR hyper-active law firms that specialize in nullifying the H1-B laws -- DE FACTO.
One (very proud) attorney (up in Portland , OR) told the crowd and camera that his firm had NEVER failed to replace an American software engineer (actually any STEM) with H1-B indentureds -- once the firm contacted his office.
He was LAUGHING at the Frigates of this nation.
He also made the point that labor mobility was impossible for the indentureds.
Both illegal immigration -- as practiced -- and HI-Bs -- as practiced -- constitute watered down enslavement: a two tier wage structure.
In 1986 Reagan granted amnesty. (mostly Mexican illegals)
Upon receiving full legal rights... these folks were fired and replaced, step-wise.
The farmers (et al) ONLY wanted to pay slave wages. Since enforcement of Federal laws was lax, the 'game solution' was to go right back to where the system was prior to amnesty.
These job slots ONLY exist because of labor arbitrage. THAT IS ALL.
BTW, the cultural incompetence of Indians and Chinese will astound. Even geniuses have to concentrate their minds towards the tech -- not our culture. The result is that most actually want to flee back home -- to establish next generation commercial competition against America's export powerhouses.