We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
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Saturday, June 29. 2013
By the way, did I ever mention I own one of these?
It's a Guild F-212, a somewhat rare animal. I bought mine in 1968. What makes it special is that it's a 12-string but it doesn't have that usual monstrous 12-string body. It also has a standard 6-string neck, so while it's twice as hard to learn how to play, once one does, one can just fly because the fingers don't have to move twice as far as on a regular wide 12-string neck. It's a real honey.
But enough about me! Let's get to the links!
Hey, what a funny coincidence!
U.S. Discovers 'Miracle Drug' — Film at 11
So, along with curing athlete's foot, gout, lumbago, cancer, dandruff and other assorted ills, we can add to the list...
And, in what I'm sure many will consider the height of irony...
Get the low-down on the evil killer weed here.
Computer Virus v1.0 (Windows):
Computer Virus v2.0 (Apple/Mac):
Apple Releases Major Security Update for OS X
And now, Computer Virus v3.0:
As famed author Thomas Wolfe once said, you're either on the bus or you're off the bus. Staying a step ahead of the smartphone hackers sounds like a good bus to be on.
The Fawning MSM (part MMMDLXVII)
It's just disgusting the way the press protects the White House when a Dem is the current occupant. Remember all that talk about WMD and the Iraq War back in the Bush days?
Well, fifty thousand lives were recently lost due to a horrific WMD attack, but do you see any mention of it in the press? Of course not. Apparently, if it doesn't happen in Obama's own back yard, it's just not worth bothering with. But tell that to the fifty thousand innocents who were gassed to death!
Related: another horrific WMD attack on innocents reported here.
Question: How do you embarrass famed blogger John Hinderaker of Power Line blog?
Answer: Link to his latest article on global warming:
The one teensy, eensy little flaw in this otherwise idyllic scenario is that it escaped the attention of almost everybody else on the friggin' planet.
From Live Science just a few days ago:
It's a good thing they're not stooping to wild hyperbole, isn't it? The point is, this was approximately the twentieth article I've read with the term 'climate change' in it since John's post came out three weeks ago. All you have to do is click on every link that has anything to do with the natural world and there's an 80% chance it'll be there. I was warning about such complacency three years ago. The juggernaut continues its remorseless pace and these twilight articles do more damage than good.
As far as the decimation of species goes, I'm with the Darwinists on this one:
Never A Dull Moment Dept
Speaking of hoaxes and conspiracies, you might have heard that some glory-seeking and/or mentally-deficient morons are claiming the explosion aboard Flight 800 back in '96 was — and I hope you're sitting down — a government cover-up! That's right, it was a missile, either accidentally fired from a U.S. warship during exercises or a deliberate act of terrorism; your choice. And the government is keeping it all a secret because of, er, um, because it would be really-really embarrassing for everybody on the international stage. That part — along with who fired the deadly missile — remains a little hazy on the details.
Regardless, this delightful little theory has the same problem the 9/11 'Truthers' had. By the time you figure in all of the people involved in the investigation over three years, plus all of the outside people like those operating nearby airport radar units that tracked the crash, you are counting upon hundreds of people to keep silent for the rest of time eternal. In an age when everyone's 15 minutes of fame is just a YouTube video away, isn't it interesting that not one person has ever come forward, protected by shadowy face and encrypted voice, and said "I was working for the NSA/FBI/CIA when Flight 800 was shot down, and here's what really happened that fateful day." Not one.
On a semi-related note, right after Benghazi I read some comment about how it reminded the guy of the USS Pueblo, the first U.S. Navy ship to surrender in 150 years and a story quickly swept under the rug by an ever-obliging MSM with Democrat Lyndon Johnson as prez, and I thought the guy made a good point. I eventually blundered across an article on the parallel here.
Remember that guy landing a Cessna in Red Square a number of years ago? Well, some activist named Harry Atwood landed a biplane (of all things) on the White House lawn in order to prove how poor our security was, and he certainly succeeded. There's no question that if he'd been a terrorist carrying a small nuclear device, our government would have been paralyzed for years, so it's only right that serious steps be taken.
Daring exit question: Might Harry have been an NSA plant??
Tracked: Jun 30, 09:05
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Fun buncha stuff! The "Scorpion" article looks particularly meaty. When they start adding transcripts, like that linked article in the Flight 447 post, you know they're serious.
The Live Science article was hysterical! Literally.
We have a friend, who worked in the local FEMA office during the Flight 800 recovery and oversaw some of the logisitics surrounding it, who saw Flight 800 go down.
I'm not a believer in the conspiracy theory. But she is. She claims she saw something headed toward the plane. The fact that she was out drinking and joyriding on a boat with friends will do little to diminish her eyewitness account. But it's unlikely to change anyone's view if they truly believe.
Since she was working on the recovery, she met many of the people associated with it. She claims many of them believe it was a conspiracy, too. I know a few did, since they helped revive this topic recently.
However, it makes absolutely no sense. Nobody claimed responsibility for it, and I really doubt if anyone lauched a missile accidentally, killing all those people, they'd remain quiet about it forever. Someone involved in the coverup would speak eventually.
It's intriguing, though. Eyewitnesses continue to pop up and insist on what they 'saw'.
I'm not sure if it's in one of the articles I linked to, but one investigator thought that what the people were seeing was swamp gas from a weather balloon trapped inside a thermal pocket reflecting the light from Venus.
Sounds good to me!
The NTSB report (all 341 pages of it) is available here. A little dry, but would be nice if the conspiracy theorists would at least read it before commenting. It's not in cursive...
ME Professor George Bibel describes the science behind the TWA 800 crash in great detail in his book Beyond the Black Box if you want a more layman-friendly version. The science isn't weak at all, thought it's true that they never isolated the source of the high-energy arc to the fuel tank wiring.
The NTSB report (all 341 pages of it) is available here. A little dry, but would be nice if the conspiracy theorists would at least read it before commenting. It's not in cursive...
Would love to read the NTSB Report but the link 1st led to Maggie's archives and today, to the current post. I don't see the NTSB Report (am I missing something?). No problem with your cursive concerns btw...we're a little north of Florida.
"Might Harry have been an NSA plant??"
Plant? The NSA has enough on all of us to blackmail whomever they want to do whatever they want.
Marijuana: The Next Diabetes Drug?
That really is ironic because I did stop smoking it over 30 years ago after only 6 months because I thought it was damaging my brain. Turns out, I just couldn't think clearly.
More irony? The same people who go ballistic and need to chill out about tobacco smoking are promoting wacky weed smoking. Shouldn't they be promoting non-smoking ingestion methods? Because it's the smoke that causes cancer.
My 18 year old son gives me regular lectures on the differences between pot smoke and tobacco smoke. To make sure I was as well informed, I did some research, too. Seems there is a considerable difference, though I'm a cynic.
I gave up smoking many years ago, though I admit to having indulged no more than 3 times in the last 20 years, usually late at night, after a few beers, on special occasions (birthday, New Year's, etc.). I've found the reasons I quit (excessive paranoia, loss of short term memory) are still intact, so I avoid it.
It also makes me (and almost every I've seen smoke it) extremely languid and lacking in ambition or interest. Yeah, I've had some crazy funny conversations while smoking, or with friends who have been smoking, but humor isn't a strong enough reason to want to indulge. I'll stick to beer and single malt.
Nice Guild - those old 'merican hand-mades were built like the proverbial brick shit-house; the original "take a lickin' and keep on tickin'" axe.
I can't help but notice how good it looks - you did take it out of the box every now and then, didn't you? They don't get completely broken in until you let a burning cigarette drop down the sound hole and then try (repeatedly) to put the cigarette out with a beer.
...so how can I post a picture here of my '73 Gibson J-50?
The axe in the pic isn't mine. I was tempted to go the "put away in hardshell case every time, don't wear shirts with buttons that might scratch the back" routine, but eventually decided to just let it be a 'kickaround' guitar, figuring that nicks and scratches don't affect sound quality. It's beat to hell now, forty years later, but who cares?
As for a pic of your '73 Gibson (like Guild, Martin and Gretch, as you said, they really hit their peak back then), if it's online then you should be able to link to it by following the formula in the 'More tips here' link, below. If it's not, then just use this pic and tell everybody "Check out my cool Gibson J-50, guys!" They'll never know the difference. :)
They aren't "nicks and scratches"; they are "battle scars". You and the Guild should wear them proudly.
Uh-yup, and we do. Actually, given that I once took a Craftsman drill gun and drilled a half dozen holes into it, I don't have much credibility in the "Keep it pristine!" department. I'd had it about a year when I decided to put a capo across the first fret permanently. It reduced the volume but seriously quickened the action. I then took some black enamel paint and painted out the old fret dots, drilled little holes where they should be and filled them in with white enamel. A crude, heinous breach of protocol, certainly, but it worked perfectly.
One other change I made fairly quickly was dumping the octave strings on the lower E and A. I had the nut and bridge worked over and now it takes two full strings without any buzzing. IMHO, all 12-strings should come that way. The octave strings defeat the whole purpose of the lower strings acting as the bass.
See that's the way it should be - "it's my axe and I'll do unto it as pleaseth me."
Back before the second-hand Fenders / Gibsons of the 50s-60s even 70s became absurdly expensive collectors items, I had a bit of a fetish for grossly mangled / modded but working electrics, with a particular affection for obviously botched and abandoned modification attempts. Well actually my "affection" was that those guitars were always cheaper.
Battle scars - I used to have a '66 Fender Mustang previously owned by someone with a tremendous belt buckle. You could tell by the giant crater worn into the back of the guitar. I've seen that on plenty of Telecasters, too -- all those C & W players I guess.
...and let's not forget about the Clarence White/Tony Rice D-28 with the bullet hole in it...
Tune the G string(s) down to F# and you've got a lute.
I have a Goya G-10 and a lute in the closet somewhere.
The lute is a great babe magnet in college.
Doc - Doing my duty as a good American, I just got my implant installed. Didn't hurt a bit, and these new ones convert blood cells directly into electricity so there's no battery to wear out. What will modern medicine come up with next!?
As for poor, won't-let-it-rest-in-its-grave Flight 800, I had the exact same gut reaction you did. The number of people involved is just staggering, and to think that every one of them would remain mute on the subject forevermore would probably be viewed as clinically insane by most people. The families of the dead getting upset over this sensationalistic bullshit is certainly justified.
+1 for MIB reference in third comment.
And, like most of the readers, I, too, broke into tears when I read about the 50,000 innocents who lost their lives to a horrid WMD attack. I thought, where's PETA when you need it? Some hunter posts a pic of a deer he bagged and PETA's all over his ass. But fifty thousand lives are lost to the horror of WMD and not a peep? Pathetic.
As for Harry Atwood, I'm starting to see some remarkably strong similarities to the Edward Snowden story.
First off, congrats on being the patriotic American and getting your implant. The local Implant Center was jammed this morning, but I'll stop by later today.
Second, thanks for the MIB plus point. It's a shame that unscientific people like Bulldog don't understand the awesome power of swamp gas and the dazzling (and certainly very convincing) effects it can produce.
Third, hmm, indeed! A very interesting connection!
Doc: My fellow Mac-heads won't like me saying this, but I appreciate what you're doing with your "slap in the face" approach and the barrage of links. Both my hubby and my bro are still in that "I own a Mac, nothing can hurt me!" mindset that Apple has nourished so heavily over the years. But as your links prove, the rules have changed.
"So, if you don't have a starting number, how do you know when there are "less"?"
I just love that. :-)
Betsy - I've been a Mac-head since OS6 and while I HATE seeing that big block of links every time Doc mentions Macs, I gotta admit that it's necessary. I participate daily in a Mac forum and, sure as shit, at least once a week someone comes along saying something like "I seem to have picked up some kind of virus, but I thought we were immune from viruses!" So keep it up, Doc. Painful though it may be.
"Painful though it may be."
More than happy to, old buddy. After all, out here in the real world my patients don't call me 'Dr. Pain' for nuthin'! I believe (slapping fist into palm) that a reputation must be earned!
Before you praise Doc to the sky, realize that not all of his links with the word Apple in them have to do with Apple computers or the Apple company. The link to "Bad Apples" for example is an article about poor employees, not Mac computers. Having discovered that on the first try, I admit I went no further to check for the accuracy or the relevancy or (especially) the timeliness of the other linked articles.
The habitual Apple bashing of some writers and some so-called technology "experts" is driven by feelings of envy and inferiority. At the end of the year, when Apple brings out a new workstation whose design may remind people of the Cray supercomputers, well, I imagine those feelings of jealousy will be uncontrollable.
In other words, you clicked on the one 'joke' link with the funny title and the last link on the list, found out it was actually a semi-joke link and promptly dismissed all the rest as inconsequential.
Seriously? You read one article, and because it wasn't 100% Apple-related, then that means none of the rest were? What are you, a fucking idiot?
Hi Doc: The issue with TWA 800 is not solely a matter of the "weak explanation". I say weak because the science is weak. What is REALLY important about TWA 800 is not solely what went on on that airplane it is the co-incidences. Prior to this flight when was the last time a commercial airline went down the same time distance on this route out of JFK? Ask that question and then take into consideration the fact that TWA 800 was only one in a serious of three (3) within three (3) years to develop "problems" so soon after take off and on the nearly same routes. TOO MANY to be unrelated in my book. The Egypt Air disaster took out the primary leaders of the Egyptian Millitary. Swissair was considered the "diplomatic" or "courier" flight because so many diplomats use that flight. Swissair still has not released the names of four passengers--who were they?
I question why all three flights developed "technical difficulties" in the same time frame (approximately 15 minutes) out of JFK. I am concerned that the explanation for Egyptair is sloppy. I am concerned about too many coincidences along with the weak 'extrapolated' science.
"because the science is weak."
1. Zero micro-pitting was found which all explosives leave behind
2. Zero explosive residue was found
3. The middle gas tank was rounded and bubbled, indicating it had clearly blown outward, not been crushed inward
The only science that was 'weak' was the actual point of ignition, but they came up with a good educated guess, which is all they have in solving half the airline disasters out there.
But while writing the above, another point occurs to me:
When it comes to cover-ups over the years, pretty much everyone is on the list; FBI, NSA, DHS, CIA, even the FAA. But in all the zillions of airline disaster documentaries I've seen, I don't ever recall anyone bringing the NTSB's integrity into issue.
In other words, it's one thing if you buy off a couple of 'experts' to obfuscate the facts, but asking an entire branch of the government to suddenly involve itself in a massive illegal conspiracy is something else again.
What about the organized effort to keep 0bama's personal information secret?
Nobody is talking there, and there has to be more than three people involved.
What I don't understand about 800 was that if there was indeed wiring inside the fuel tank, I would have thought the load it was carrying would be intrinsically safe, meaning the voltage would be so low that even if there was a spark, it would not be hot enough to start a fire/explosion. That would mean an extremely light electrical wire. My thinking is that if there was a short and it didn't blow any breakers and somehow the wires managed to cross so that the current was redirected though the fuel tank wiring... I would think the fuel tank wiring would have melted long before it could have made a spark.
I am not an electrical engineer but the scenario they describe strikes me as extremely unlikely.
Or maybe it is just all too complex for my feeble mind to comprehend?
This has got me curious enough to re-watch the 'Mayday' episode on it. I'll clip out the 'summation' part and post it tomorrow.
There's a considerable difference between keeping records private and keeping quiet about the deaths of many people. The fact is, we know Obama's records are being kept quiet, and the people who know most about it feel there are legitimate reasons for this (either they don't think it's an issue, or they are concerned it can be taken out of context and therefore are not worth sharing). I can't say I'd agree with their decision, but it's very different from being the person who presses a button which either deliberately or accidentally kills many people.
At some point, someone will want to talk.
At this point, the deliberate scenario seems outlandish. There's no reasonable data which indicates an explosion from the exterior, and even my friend who worked for FEMA admits this much, though she remains convinced of a missile strike since "that's what I saw". Of course, she also was in the hangar with the investigators and most of her reasons for believing remain rooted in her witness account, rather than the available data.
I used a few optical illusions to ask her if she could reliable believe her eyes in every case (and did this when she wasn't drinking, as she was the day she witnessed it). She could not be reliably sure when I tried these with her, but she remains steadfast. That's what being an eyewitness will do to you. I don't fault her, nor do I necessarily agree with her.
Conspiracies tend to unravel over time naturally. Ever try keeping a really huge secret? How many times have you been 100% successful? Too often something or somebody gives up the ghost.
I just this minute finished re-watching the documentary on it. I had forgotten, but as it turns out, there was a perfectly logical explanation for the 'upward-streaking' missile trails that so many people saw. I'll have a clip t'morrow morn.
Most people don't understand that while the NTSB leads the investigation, it invites a large number of outside 'partners' with expertise to participate as well. Airplane mfrs and all relevant component suppliers, FAA (air traffic control), airline, pilots union, local police agencies involved in the recovery, etc. In addition, because terrorism WAS initially suspected, there were over 500 FBI agents working the crash investigation. They number of people that would have to be involved in a coverup is well over 1000.
At some point, someone will want to talk
It appears that has occurred. I'll watch the documentary and see what it says. Both sides of the fence being discussed with good comments.
Nope, nobody 'talked'. Everybody involved in the latest round were members of the original investigation who voiced their concerns back then, too. Nothing new is presented today in any version.
Most importantly, none of those involved have come up with a motive for shooting it down, nor have they given any particular support to it being an accidental missile, either. They basically have said "we didn't like the results then, we don't like them now, and we feel like our voices were not heard originally." In fact, given the persistence of this 'conspiracy', it's clear their voices were heard, and just enough people believe them to keep the insanity going.
BTW, I'm not opposed to the potential that it was shot down either accidentally or by design. I just want substantial proof. It doesn't exist or they've been extraordinarily clever at making it disappear and keeping thousands of people quiet.
A handful of aviation experts, including a number of investigators who were part of the original probe of TWA Flight 800, have come forward in a new documentary to say evidence points to a missile as the cause of the crash off the coast of Long Island 17 years ago
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/18/twa-flight-800-investigators-break-silence-in-new-documentary-claim-original/#ixzz2XeR7MQd6
I think the issue is people inside the investigation have suggested something is amiss. Their premise is somewhat opposed to the official conclusions. I don't know if minority positions are allowed to be included in the final report but these professionals have put their credibility on the line IMO. I'll listen to what they have to say. I agree that the "who" and "why" isn't provided and that plays a big part in reaching the correct conclusion. Maybe the official conclusion was a little premature.
Although retired now, I had a professional interest in reading/following investigations like this. I seem to recall that the wiring used had an outer coating/casing that became brittle and flaked off exposing a bare wire. As I recall, this was a problem with design of the coating and thousands of a/c were wired with the same product.
I'll have to go back through what I have archived and review what I read a few years ago, to refresh the "memory matter".
I wouldn’t necessarily call it a conspiracy, but my view at the time was that Boeing fell on their sword in the TWA 800 case to mollify the FAA. As an aero engineer and pilot, I know a bit about aircraft design and I had good friends among the engineers involved in that investigation.
Quick question: there were 250+ witnesses who claimed to have seen a "streak of light" but given little or no credibility by the NTSB/FBI. I seem to recall that a plausible explanation for the "ascending" flare-like streak was offered up: 'once the nose of the a/c broke away the wings and remaining fuselage ascended for a short period of time before descending' (I believe I've remembered it correctly). 'that is what the eye witnesses had seen'. (we all know that eye-witness testimony is the least reliable but....250+?
With your knowledge of a/c design/aeronautical principles...(mine is ATC) would that be at all possible? I certainly understand if you don't wish to comment.
After the nose cone broke off, the main body of the jet (still under engine power) rose sharply and ascended a thousand feet before rolling over. This is according to the black boxes. So that's what everybody saw. No mystery.
So that's what everybody saw. No mystery.
Don't know that it's so "cut & dried". There were reports of people seeing a streak of 'light' well below where this visual would have occurred.
And I'll make one comment on the lack of "prime radar" tracks on the numerous radar screens displaying this area: as those "in the know know" there are primary and secondary radar returns described. "Digital Radar", that is used for ATC purposes is, Primary based. The source (primary or "raw" signal) is coordinated with the SSR (transponder) return to confirm that the "raw" target is, in fact, that a/c that has been assigned a discrete (4 digit) code. The computers then add the altitude/ground speed and whatever other info is wanted to create the "tag" which ATC uses. The "raw" signal is suppressed (our equip allowed a controller to "bring up" the primary to confirm its association with the "tag", if desired.
When primary (or "raw") radar is used it creates ground clutter and the signal sensitivity is "turned down" to give a cleaner screen. While I'm sure this must have been looked into, reports say that there was no raw returns that would relate to what 250+ witnesses reported seeing. I would wish to read the technical investigative reports as to what was actually discussed with those operating the radar sources.
(plse see comment @ #2.1.1)
PETN was found in seat backs and other interior parts but was not included in the accident report.
The news video explaining what happened showed burning fuel from the center wing tank falling from the plane towards the earth making the streak of fire that observers saw and thought went from the ground to the plane. Only the most dumber than a rock ignorant of individuals could believe that theory.
Two ex-military pilots with plenty of experience dodging SAMs in North Vietnam reported "missile launch" on their ATC frequencies. I doubt that they would mistake that particular event.
Cover up? No doubt.
Why? Who knows.
Minute traces of both RDX and PETN were found under a piece of flooring tape, but zero residue anywhere else in the area. The FBI looked at the plane's history and a few months before it had been used by some agency to train dogs, tests which involved both RDX and PETN, and there was a report that one of the bags had accidentally been punctured.
The upwards 'streak of fire' reported by so many people was addressed in previous comments.
The nearest Navy vessel capable of firing off a missile was more than 150 miles outside of the missiles' range.
Stay tuned t'morrow morn for a vid clip from the documentary.
The FBI looked at the plane's history and a few months before it had been used by some agency to train dogs, tests which involved both RDX and PETN, and there was a report that one of the bags had accidentally been punctured
The link below suggests that the "sniffing dog training" did not occur on the TWA800 a/c.
Interesting/enjoyable comment thread today. My curiosity is being whetted.
Dr Mercury, the PETN was on seat backs, and other portions of the plane. The drug dog story was pure disinformation released to draw the public attention away from the PETN discovery. The only way around that discovery was to redirect and lie.
Dr Mercury, redirecting from the PETN was the same tactic used by the Clinton administration when Bill had his Rose Garden conference saying that he was shrinking the government by reducing the number of cattle guards in the Western US. The next morning the media machine maintained that he never said what he said. Lie. Lie. Lie. The American public is dumb enough to go with any story presented to them by their favorite talking head and too lazy to work out the timeline and facts themselves.
I invite you to read the comment from 'Soviet of Washington', above.
Dr Mercury, Soviet Washington only pointed out what the investigation published. Notice his comment that the high energy arc was never discovered. The high energy arc came from an outside source not frayed wiring.
Coverups are not that difficult to accomplish when you are dealing with highly trained individuals working for the government and you maintain that the coverup is for national security. Some take years to pop to the surface and some never do.
The number of people involved doesn't really matter it is the nature of the people instead that matters. Government eavesdropping on our conversations involved more than the number in the TWA 800 investigation and would still be denied if Snowden hadn't made his run.
"The number of people involved doesn't really matter it is the nature of the people instead that matters."
That might be true for ten, even hundreds of people. But a thousand? At what point does someone finally crack? Ten thousand? A hundred? Five hundred? Twenty million?
And, as I pointed out in another comment, while it's common for "government cover-up" to be associated with the CIA, FBI, DHS, NSA, and even the FAA, no one in history has ever accused the NTSB of conspiracy. So, as far as that mental mindset you're referring to, now you're asking an entire agency to do something illegal for the first time.
It just doesn't wash.
Soviet Washington only pointed out what the investigation published. Notice his comment that the high energy arc was never discovered. The high energy arc came from an outside source not frayed wiring.
The comments are zeroing in on the main issue: determining the ignition source.
I found it interesting that the tests (I believe done in England on an old 747's center fuel tank) used propane to simulate the explosive air/vapour ratios that were present in the TWA flight. Probably on the "up & up" but I've never read why propane was substituted? I would think one would use "Jet A" but there must be a reasonable explanation.
Two ex-military pilots with plenty of experience dodging SAMs in North Vietnam reported "missile launch" on their ATC frequencies. I doubt that they would mistake that particular event
Would you, by chance, remember where you read this? First time I've seen mention of it.
Garry, the missile launch statements were on the FAA ATC transcripts that were presented to the NTSB. After making a small news blip they were redacted or ignored in the investigation.
I was going to post this @ #188.8.131.52.3.1 (here is another possible voice that is not from the investigation team). At this time I'd look past "Mark's" comment to read the information, that surrounds what he believes as a possibility, that was available to the investigators.
Cover-up? Not necessarily but in need of an explanation (if true) I'd say.
I'll add this last link for now...I'm not trying to "inflame" the debate(s) but only to show that I believe (if the link can be believed) that certain questions appear in need of an answer or need to be asked. (seems to be some "higher-ups asking the questions).
One of my favorite myths surrounding this case is the supposed video of the 'missile strike' which some people claim they saw on NY1 News.
There are claims this was actually on air up to 3 times before the FBI showed up and confiscated the tape.
What's really astoundingly awful about this particular story is rooted in the fact that I have a friend at NY1 who told me every tape that they bring in gets copied several times for potential distribution. The FBI can't just show up and confiscate a tape because there's more than one within a short period of time and it's usually been shared with other media outlets. So the FBI would have had to go to every station. But no other story of FBI visits has been proposed and I have yet to meet someone who actually saw this video....all have only "heard about it".
Garry: Thank you for your insights. I would like to ask you to research how many flights out of JFK find that they are in such dire trouble within approximately the same time frame and route out of JFK. Are you able to find that information.
Second question: can we get copies of the recordings of conversation between ATC and cockpit just prior to explosion? It would be interesting to compare the three conversations. I would like to also include the the Swissair flight because they got into trouble just a few more minutes out.
I hate co-incidences they make me twitchy!
Swissair still has not released the names of four passengers--who were they? I found your comment in #9 interesting.
I would have no way to research that info except Googling (which I did with no success but for Swiss Air 111, Egypt Air 990 and TWA 800). Any other such "Incident Reports" would be in FAA files if they occurred within NY Airspace.
The ATC recordings are sealed and retained for 30 days (at least that was our protocol) and not available to the public. In certain cases parts of recorded transmissions are released but that is a FAA thing. I can't ever recall that happening nor o' the 49th. An FOI request might be the only way to obtain those.
We'd like to believe that reports, such as these, are on the "up & up" but our "trust factor" has been weaned over the years. (I still have yet to see photos of the engines and the landing gear from the 9/11 757 that supposidly hit the Pentagon. These are a/c parts that survive most accidents relatively intact. I would also expect that there would be security tape of this event but I've yet to see release of any video. I find that curious).
It may be that the NTSB report is, in fact, correct. But I see/sense a few "loose ends" that I don't believe have been sufficiently answered to my satisfaction. But then I, like all of us, have to rely on the information released by the authorities. Makes it a bit of a "one way street".
Pgs 5-50 (NTSB Append "B") gives you the ATC/CVR transcript.
Transcript seems normal to me although appears to be a little "Taxi pivot point" refresher going on.
Garry--nice work. Thank you so much it helps immensely to have this information to look at. What do you think is going on at
20:29:15 when he speaks to fuel flow?
He speaks of the "fuel flow indicator" and that is an electrical instrument that measures fuel flow to the engine (ATR rated pilots please jump in here) and, amongst other things, would help a crew to monitor engine performance. The display (analogue or digital?..I don't know what was in Boeings of that vintage) might of had a "bump" in the display readings. I believe #4 engine powers the brakes and other systems so...a power surge perchance? The CVR ended 1:58 minutes after that remark.