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Friday, February 15. 2013AGW update: Fighting fire with fire Everyone needs a hobby.
Fun, biting questions such as: Should a baking potato be wrapped in foil shiny side in or shiny side out? Has a passenger ever landed a plane after the pilot was incapacitated? Is a bullet wound in the shoulder as harmless as the movies make it seem? I spent the whole day going through the archives and had a terrific time. At least, until I got to the first global warming article. All those silly up-and-down temperature cycles that have occurred over the past 10,000 years? Pfft! Ancient history, bud! Especially in light of the literally tons of CO2 we're dumping into the atmosphere on a daily basis. Tons, he'll tell you, tons. And it also appeared that — just perhaps — some of his questions were a bit 'staged' so he could show off his expertise. Questions such as:
I won't link to the article since I'm going to quote most of it here. So, okay, let's say man-made global warming is going to melt the ice caps and raise sea levels up 200 feet, or whatever the latest projection is. But just how much energy would truly be involved in such an undertaking? Bear in mind as you read his first three hypotheses that we're comparing them to what's currently spewing CO2 into the atmosphere; that is, a smattering of coal plants and factories with more emission controls imposed on them than at any time in history, a bunch of small-engine cars that are emitting less pollution than at any time in history, and a 'green' culture that condemns the slightest waste of energy as possibly heretical. So, what exactly would it take to actually melt the ice caps? But watch as we use his own words against him. Watch as we fight fire with fire.
So that's what we're talking about in terms of the energy required to actually melt the polar ice and raise sea levels 225 feet, or whatever the latest projection is. (It went up 25 feet just in the time it took me to write the above) And I note one key line that I mention in my own AGW opus:
In other words, according to Mr. Answer Man, the global temperature would actually have to rise fifty-four degrees just to reach the melting point of water. And it would actually have to rise a lot higher than that, in the sense that it would naturally be cooler at the poles. And it would have to rise even higher than that, in that even if the temperature of the entirety of Antarctica climbed to 33 degrees, it would still take about 1,000 years for the whole freaking thing to melt. So, in summation, in order to melt the polar ice caps and raise sea levels 235 feet, we would require one of the following: A. Space mirrors the size of North America Nicely portrayed, Mr. Answer Man! Thanks for putting it all into perspective for us. You've been a big help. "Oh, Doc, go on with you! Cow farts? Nobody's taking that seriously!" French Scheme Targets Farting Cows That was published three days ago.
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The Straight Dope is a great site, right up there with Snopes.com.
the author has been writing the column under a pen name since 1973s. CO2? My trees and plants love CO2. They take deep long breaths of it. Except that tree farm next door keeps stealing all my CO2. Just because they are downwind. My trees are literally gasping for breath. I'd yell over the fence at them but that would just be sending them even more CO2.
No wonder I freeze all winter, with that tree farm sucking up all the CO2 blanket. I'd say "hang in there", old friend. If the global warmists are right, it shouldn't be but another year or two before the entire U.S. is a balmy tropical paradise.
We here in the Florida Keys will be jealous, because we won't feel so special anymore. :( Should a potato be cooked in aluminum foil with the shiny side in or shiny side out? Neither. Drape the potato with a wet piece of paper towel and cook it in your microwave oven.
I've never been much into potatoes, but I had a landlady once who'd do exactly as you suggested and just eat the whole thing all by itself. Until then, I'd always just viewed them as a side dish.
On the flip side, the Marie Callender's 'Cheese And Bacon Potato Bake' is to die for! Great article at The Straight Dope
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2478/did-john-f-kennedy-really-write-profiles-in-courage I call bosh and nonsense on global warming
In the past Co2 levels have been way higher. Where is the upper continental shelf? If Co2 drives ice melt then in the past the water levels must have been about 200 feet higher, for long enough to create a shelf like the continental shelf. There isn't one. The amount of H2O on Earth hasn't changed, so the same amount of water is available to be melted or frozen. Crap, Crap Crap and Baloney. For some technical reason when aluminum foil is made it is pressed to it's final thickness (thinness) two layers at a time. The shiny side is created by the highly polished rollers and the dull side is the result of the two sheets of aluminum being in contact with each other.
Doc, excuse the suggestion but as a cancer survivior of a rough operation I tried forcing myself to do increasing and regular physical challenges/excercise. Walking preferably uphill increasing distance and altitude change. I mean real aggressive hiking to include climbing a mountain. combine that with a 8 week program of pushups and chinups with some specific targets in mind, like being able to do 100 pushups without stopping. I suppose you could bicycle or some other form of areobic excercise but something whatever it takes to get your pulse rate up for half and hour to an hour at a time. Then as your strength builds excercise for a couple of hours and then 2-4 hours etc. Obviously if this is contrary advice from what your doctors have told you then don't do it but I find excercise to be invigorating and restoring. Maybe you have plateaued and need something to break you free of the doldrums. Doc, you are exactly right. The "carbon" scare is a rent-seeker's dream.
Here... http://tiny.cc/cl1ksw ... is a chart showing the rise in CO2, compared with the fall in global temperature. As we see, there is zero correlation. Case closed, QED That's a very interesting site, and I like the do-it-yourself concept behind it. "We'll give you the tools -- you figure it out." It makes for a very effective argument.
if floating ice will not cause a rise in sea levels when it melts, then why would ice on the ocean floor be a problem?
Because, per Archimedes principle, the weight of the displaced water is less than the weight of the ice. This happens when glaciers reach the sea and the ice flow has a toe in the water.
Now look at SD's article on the second ammendment, where they quite plainly state that it means that the state has the right to arm its military, and that there's nothing in there to stop the state from banning any and all weapons from private ownership if the state so desires. Where they also state that the constitution is a living thing that should be revised to be more in line with the current times so it remains relevant...
Typical leftist drivel. I didn't read his answer as saying that. He was quite clear that the people had the right to bear arms, but that this right could be regulated. He was clearly a supporter of the individual-right rather than state-right interpretation of the Constitution.
Dr. Mercury: D. Cow farts and your neighbor's SUV
Actually, a concerted effort to burn huge amounts of fossils fuels, along with known positive feedbacks. Dr. Everett V. Scott: Here... is a chart showing the rise in CO2, compared with the fall in global temperature. As we see, there is zero correlation. Cherry picking. You chose a range that started with an exceptionally strong El Niño and ended with a double La Niña. We'll leave that one Aasif Mandvi. QUOTE: For years we have been told the Earth is melting like a popcycle, and that humanity will would soon be boiled alive in a rising sea. Well, today that lie stands exposed with evidence that any child can understand. I give you frozen water, falling from the sky. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-10-2010/unusually-large-snowstorm I'm glad you showed up to comment. I was getting a bit worried there.
I thought I'd lost my touch. :) zachriel,
You are wrong, as usual. Here is another chart proving it: http://tiny.cc/fzqmsw Note that global temperature increased at exactly the same rate in the early 1900's, as it did recently. That earlier increase happened when CO2 was much lower, indicating that the planet is simply warming, naturally, as it recovers from the Little Ice Age in the 1600 - 1700's. The climate alarmist crowd is losing the debate for one central reason: Planet Earth is falsifying their bogus claims. The "carbon" scare is all about the money: more than $100 BILLION in federal grants has been wasted to 'study climate change' in the last 12 years alone. Who is going to admit that 'climate change' is natural, and not any kind of a threat? Taking that stand is not conducive to continued employment. Dr. Everettt V. Scott: Note that global temperature increased at exactly the same rate in the early 1900's, as it did recently.
That's funny. You show a chart that demonstrates a clear warming trend through the 20th century as the world industrialized. That doesn't necessarily demonstrate anthropogenic climate change, though. It could be a natural fluctuation. Or there could be other factors, such aerosols. Or all that plus other factors. The key bit of information is that while the surface has warmed, the stratosphere has cooled, a signature of greenhouse warming. You're missing the point of this article. What you're saying is, "A bit of warming of the stratosphere is the equivalent of 100 times all the nuclear weaponry currently on earth, or 1,000 times all the fossil fuel reserves. Or space mirrors the size of North America."
That's a hell of a statement, even from you. Unless, of course, you'd care to argue the guy's credentials, at which point we'd require your own credentials on the subject. Dr. Mercury: You're missing the point of this article. What you're saying is, "A bit of warming of the stratosphere is the equivalent of 100 times all the nuclear weaponry currently on earth, or 1,000 times all the fossil fuel reserves. Or space mirrors the size of North America."
Um, the stratosphere is cooling. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/globalwarming/ar4-fig-3-17.gif
#10.2.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2013-02-17 12:28
(Reply)
Oh, sorry, but same dif as to my point. If you're not using the term "space mirrors" somewhere in your response, then you're drifting off-topic. This isn't a "Does it exist?" article; it's an energy-comparison article.
Dr. Mercury: This isn't a "Does it exist?" article; it's an energy-comparison article.
The amount of energy the Earth receives from the Sun dwarfs other sources. A small change in the amount of energy that is trapped by the atmosphere can easily change the surface temperature.
#10.2.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2013-02-17 13:18
(Reply)
Does the sun cause the ice ages? If not, then that would indicate there are other large factors as work, as well, such as mega-volcanic eruptions, and cycles-within-cycles (mini-ice ages within larger ice ages) that we don't even understand yet. What looks like "settled science" to you looks like a science in its infancy to others.
Dr. Mercury: Does the sun cause the ice ages?
Changes in solar irradiance may be very important for explaining ice ages. There's also various feedbacks that cause the Earth to tip from one equilibrium point to another. Solar irradiance does not explain the current warming trend.
#10.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2013-02-17 15:35
(Reply)
Zachriel is pretty funny. I take it that only the Alarmists are allowed to 'cherrypick'. [And of course they also continuously 'adjust' the past data {always in a way the results in more warming, oddly enough} but evidently that's fine, too.]
The scrambling the Alarmists have to go to in order to maintain their 'consensus' is just hilarious. JorgXMcKie: I take it that only the Alarmists are allowed to 'cherrypick'.
Cherry picking is not an effective argument in science. Agreed. [Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs.] Why then don't you get equally exercised when the Alarmists do it? Oh. Right.
Alternatively, of course, an assertion of "cherrypicking" is not a effective argument in science either, pending proof of said cherrypicking. Altering one's argument to suit one's conclusion is not an effective argument anywhere. JorgXMcKie: Alternatively, of course, an assertion of "cherrypicking" is not a effective argument in science either, pending proof of said cherrypicking.
We didn't merely wave our hands and say "cherry picking". We provided specific reasons why the range was not representative of the trend. The global warming meme was created my socialist and statists it was pushed along it's path by socialists and statists and it is a socialist/statists wet dream. More power, more taxes, more control over people and things. What's not to love, unless you are not a socialist or statist. I find it interesting that all socialist and statists support the theory, work to undermine the opposition and are totally committed to it even when they don't fully understand how it will all work for them. It is as though it is intuitive; that is if it gives governments more power money and control how could it be bad???
Sadly most capitalist and conservatives do not intuitively understand the harm this political movement can cause them. They vacillate between believing it, believing some of it and doubting it. But they don't really understand that it is a political movement that karl Marx would be proud of and NOT science. |