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Sunday, January 15. 2012
A little old lady’s phone rings. She answers, “Hello.”
The usual leftists or armchair warriors eager to gratify leftist memes to get into print are writing all sorts of word-salads about how a few Marines pissing on some dead Taliban provides deep meaning into war, morality, training, geopolitics, history, and so on.
Bullshit on the phone, or a pissing of pixels.
Vietnam vets and, finally, truth won out. So, witness today's attempt to dehumanize and disparage our troops. Maggots keep crawling and trying to devour honor. Next time they need a Marine, instead call a fellow columnist.
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Real Marines would disagree...
"Alex Lemons, a Marine sergeant: - repeated for truth -
If you aren’t surprised and disgusted by this as a combatant, veteran or as a civilian whose country has been at war for a decade, then maybe you need to take a look in the mirror. Have you become this callous?
The Marine Corps doesn’t teach anyone to do this.
Choices were made and they were not good ones. This is what maintains our moral high ground. It doesn’t matter if the Taliban cut heads off and videotape them.
The whole point, as I was told since 2001, was not to become like them, or to be comparable to them.
'Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos said in a statement that the behavior is 'wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history.'
She wasn't Defending the Marines. She was defending behavior that is expressly banned by the UCMJ. Those such as yourself are the problem here....
It's OK to shoot Taliban in the head, but not to whiz on them?
Odd concern, that.
In any event, the Taliban are not covered by the Geneva Convention, since they do not wear uniforms.
I have seen a photo, taken at Saipan, I believe, of a USMC flame tank, with the head of one of it's victims being used as a "hood ornament" on the right headlight guard.
While the acts of the young Marines was a stupid one, especially the part about filming it, it doesn't even come into the shallows as far as nasty thing in wartime, much less break the surface. Let it drop.
The post and the first three comments are pretty much the flavors in this soup and it is not gonna reduce much further.
Those such as yourself are the problem here....
No - no that's not it at all.
As a combat veteran myself, and approximately the same age as these young men when I served, it is a breakdown of humanity. and their core values. These young men are constantly at arms their psyche's constantly under siege and the only constraints are the theoretical professionalism and civility fostered as prime elements of the Corps - Duty, Honor, Country.
In this case, it is obvious that these men were out in the field much longer than they should have been. Their leadership failed them in not recognizing the stress levels and the value of having them out of the field and standing them down for a few days to decompress. I was a victim of this myself - two tours, constantly volunteering for patrols, always fearing death but reveling in the adrenalin rush of combat never recognizing the dichotomy of fearing death but wanting to kill as many "gooks" as I could. I became, and actually at one point viewed myself as, Death's agent on Earth immune to all feeling and caring about another human being's life. "They" became just so much meat on the ground to count up, report and move on to do it all over again.
I paid a huge price for that experience and fortunately, the bill was paid in full and life returned to normal. These men will pay a similar price at some point in addition to military justice for a momentary lapse of judgment, deportment and character. They don't deserve anything more than an Article 15, a reduction in rank and pay for a month or two, but it will become something larger than themselves. Fortunately, veterans and fellow Marines who have been there have their backs and perhaps it will work out so they don't have their futures destroyed by overly PC officers and politicians.
Alex Lemon repeated for truth....
"“Alex Lemons, a Marine scout sniper during the fierce fighting in the Iraqi city of Falluja in 2004, said that on several occasions he encountered American troops who either urinated on insurgent bodies or manipulated them for photographs, like putting them in ridiculous poses. While he called such behavior disgusting, he also said it could be cathartic.
“‘I’ve never spat on a dead body or urinated on one, but I’ve certainly screamed at a dead body because they’ve taken a friend’s life,’ said Mr. Lemons, who left the Marine Corps in 2008.”
There's your truth concreteblue - the WHOLE truth.
I've got no military experience, so I'm not going to comment one way or the other on the cathartic role of this behavior, or even whether these guys deserve punishment, or anything of that nature.
What I will say is that while I find their behavior inhuman, I understand war is a difficult experience and odd things happen. Things we'd never consider doing in 'real life'.
The differentiating point is that these people were filmed. We have proof of them doing something that is probably far more common than any of us realize. To say the US armed forces are 'inhuman', in general, because of this, is wrong. The event may be - the people involved more likely are not.
I have no doubt the Taliban or al-Qaeda, given the chance, would do the same thing, if not worse. We've seen their brutality in various forms. Perhaps not as well and clearly documented as this event, but certainly the facts are evident.
I can't hold this against the men themselves, or the military overall. That would be unfair and dishonest. If the Taliban carried video cameras with them, I have no doubt we'd see far less honorable situations occurring, which the media would find a way to cover up or explain away.
Given this is the US military, which has rules and guidelines their opposition doesn't have to follow - I'm going to be flexible regarding the event. It may have been wrong to do, but given the situation, perhaps it wasn't. In the context of the overall conflict, I'd prefer to see the media find another event of similar inhumanity from the other side so we can put it all in context.
This, of course, is the failing of the media, not the military.
Very well said, but didn't you mean "communist" and not columnist?
surprised and disgusted as a combatant, veteran, etc.......I've heard jibberish like this for decades. You need only to scroll above for the link to the "Sad story of Judith Clark.....". The left and the media, such as the NYTimes have been pedaling the 60's spoiled rich trash as the real victims in this country. They have killed for revolutionary change in the US but apologists continue to plead for there release. And we are horrified by dead, ununiformed "combatant" being pissed on. Oh the tragedy being dumped on the poor leftlanders.
Everyone needs to see "Restrepo." Then put this in perspective.
Next point: real men whiz outside at times, and always have, at least in my experience, whether on trees or the Taliban.
--and while on foreign-sounding 'R' names attached to this topic, search 'Rescorla'
or just go here and here:
Oh yes! There is a statue of Rich Rescorla at Ft. Benning where "Doc" (Juan Restrepo) did both basic and Airborne training. Rescorla completed OCS training there before being assigned to the Air Cav in 1963. Amazing, amazing man.
There is quite a museum at Benning, plus wonderful jump school shows. Worth a visit for all of this plus 13th Street Barbeque and in our case, a kiddo.
Thanks for that info, MissyW. Great to hear folks who are aware of such stories and know they need to tell them around the country's campfires, virtual and otherwise.
Rescorla as you probably know was an immigrant from eastern Europe (a Pole i think, guess i oughtta look it up).
IOW, he wasn't born here, he chose.
So on the one hand you have this immigrant who from some of the harshest fights in Vietnam to willingly entering the death zone on 9/11/01 on a rescue mission and was KIA.
So what's on the other hand, but the question and answer, why did he do this, what did he see in USA that made it all worth doing?
Well, one general piece of an answer that must be true is, he looked at this country, and he saw enough to fight for, and so he did, all the way.
Olde Texas lingo, a 'hoss'. It's a type, alright --all the way back to Homer and the Iliad, who wrote Ajax as this sort of feller.
Bulldog - The behavior might be egregious and unpleasant, but it is very human.
I am in complete agreement with Bruce Kesler on this one.
The media and government heavy hitters (e.g., Hillary) were awfully quick to pile on. Suspiciously quick. I find thier behavior inexcusable. Real leaders don't sacrifice their people that way. Makes me question whose side they are really on.
As for the Marines, I'm willing to acknowledge it might not have been the brightest choice, given PR repecussions. But given what we've put them in and asked them to do ... I have no real problem with it. And think those that do need to spend a year's deployment in their boots.