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Wednesday, October 12. 2011
And while I was wondering how they'd handle the numerous cameras required to keep everyone in front of the lens, they solved that little problem by not shooting anyone from the front. Most of the shots were offset a good angle, and then there were the you-are-there shots like this:
I don't view these things as 'win-lose' events, but since that's how everyone else looks at them, I'd say that Romney 'won' again, and everybody else pretty much held their own with the one exception of Santorum. Perry didn't muff anything or excel at anything, so he gets a draw, although that'll be interpreted as "continuing his downward slide" by the pundits.
The subject was — yawn! — 'economics' for the entire two hours, but it actually came across pretty well. None of the candidates got bogged down in the minutiae, losing the audience in the process.
The highlight of the night was how they came right out of the starting gate and immediately put the blame for our current economic woes right where it belongs, on Congress' shoulders. They were asked (if you can believe this) if they thought anyone on Wall Street should go to prison for the economic harm they've done. Bachmann wasn't having any of that bullshit and immediately hauled out Barney Frank's and Chris Dodd's role and what they delightfully kept referring to as the Housing and Jobs Destruction Bill throughout the evening. You won't see it in the MSM, but Bachmann & Co. took that whole 'blame Wall Street' meme and threw it back in the moderator's lap like an atom bomb. Newt flat-out stated that if anyone should to go to jail, it should be Ben Bernanke, and that a federal inquiry should be made into Frank and Dodd's role.
The moderators kept trying to change the subject, but someone in the group would eventually get back to it. When someone mentioned repealing Sarbanes-Oxley along with Dodd-Frank, there was a general nodding of heads all around. If Romney woke up the room as to the reason they were there, Bachmann woke up the country by letting everyone know that this wasn't going to be the usual gang of talking heads blaming everything on Wall Street like they usually see on their telly. This group was angry.
As for ol' Herman, well, you can tell everybody likes the guy and wishes him well, but they just don't like his 9-9-9 plan because it opens up yet another in a long, endless string of money troughs for Congress. Cain listed out the 'deterrents' he'd put in place, but everyone knows them Congresscritters is wily things and capable of all kinds of sneaky mischief when you're not looking.
When it came time for Mitt's question, he turned to Perry and asked him how he could justify once being a Democrat and campaigning for Al Gore in 2000. That gave Perry the perfect opportunity (talk about being ready for a question) to pull out Ronald Reagan... (half the room swoons in ecstasy) ...and note how Reagan was also once a Democrat, and that Perry switched to the Republican Party... (drum roll) ...at a younger age than Reagan did!
You can picture the liberal producers of the show sitting around beforehand, salivating at the prospect of the candidates pulling out their sharpest knives and whittling each other to pieces during the personal question segment. "Should we keep an ambulance standing by?", asked one of the assistants.
What a disappointment.
In the humor department, while Cain has been the one to crack the most jokes at these things, and you can tell both Newt and Perry have a great sense of humor, it's Jon Huntsman who comes across as the wittiest/wiliest of them all. There's a difference between having a joke at the ready and making one up on the spot. He had a couple of spontaneous quips tonight that were pretty sharp.
Ready-to-go quips included Huntsman claiming that when he first heard of Cain's 9-9-9 plan, he thought it was the price of a pizza, and Bachmann noted that if you turn '999' upside-down, well, the devil's in the details.
Has anyone mentioned Romney's stutter? He stutters two or three times at every debate, usually with his t-t-t-tees. It's very brief, but it's there. Interestingly, it doesn't seem to come across as a negative, but more of a 'makes him a regular guy' kind of thing. Put another way, it takes away some of that 'robotic' stigma he's labeled with by making him more 'human'.
If anyone drops out between now and the next debate, I expect it'll be Santorum, and possibly Huntsman. Gingrich and Paul are in it for the long haul.
My impression is that Perry shot himself in the foot (those Texans and their guns, huh?) right after he entered the race and has done nothing but make Romney appear all the more presidential by way of comparison since then. You don't see ol' Matt shootin' from the hip and calling parts of our government "treasonous" or indicating they might be illegal Ponzi Schemes. And Bachmann was the one who made the big stink about Perry slaughtering Innocent Young Girls™ with his evil HPV vaccine, leaving Mitt unsullied.
Romney, by way of contrast, just remains cool, calm and collected. Given how much emphasis these debates have been given by the media, if all Perry can do is tread water like he did during this one, he'll probably end up with a good, strong, second-place victory. At this point, it looks like Mitt is going to pull away with it.
On a personal note, I'm fine with that. I have to assume that if you're a Republican governor of a traditionally Democratic state, you've learned how to reach across the aisle and get things done.
On the subject, because he's been the governor of Massachusetts, home of the exalted Kennedys (the other half of the room swoons in ecstasy), he hasn't been on the Left's traditional hit list. Not 'slipping below the radar'; just given a certain exemption.
So, when it comes to him matching up against Obama, I wouldn't expect to see near the fervor and vitriol coming from the Left like you'd see with a Texan candidate, aka, 'another Bush'. In that regard, and because of the delicate exemption he's held in the past, he might be the one Republican the disappointed and disenfranchised Obama supporters might vote for.
Wait, hold on a sec. This just in via Twitter:
If you've won Glenda, you've won Middle America.
Election 2012: Huckabee forum tonight
While I did a pre-debate post on this yesterday, I'm re-mentioning just to make sure everyone catches it. This debate is a late arrival and wasn't listed on any of the dozen schedule sites I checked, yet promises to really be something s
Weblog: Maggie's Farm
Tracked: Dec 03, 10:15
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I'm always surprised in these debates at the commanding presence and intellect of Newt Gingrinch (whenever he speaks the other candidates almost seem to be in awe of him) and yet no movement in the poles and no post-debate chatter about him from the talking heads.
This seems to be Romney's race to win or lose. Perry is done, and appeared tired and disinterested last night. I like Cain because he is an outsider, but the introduction of a national sales tax without the elimination of the income is just asking for mischief from Congress. Congress cannot be trusted.
Biz - As these things go, that was a superb summation. As far as Newt goes, I've been telling everyone from the beginning that he's the only true 'Big Picture' guy up there. He's shown this in every single debate so far. And, as I mentioned above, Romney was the only other candidate to keep his eye on the White House, rather than his 'opponents' across the table.
Damn, that's fun being able to say "across the table". What a great format that was.
That's my first impression when I think about it, but actually State is in a whole different building and he'd be out of touch. How about Chief of Staff? That way, he's still around for feedback but wouldn't get stuck performing perfunctory duties like the VP does. I'd sure as hell keep him around somewhere.
I have to say that the Twitter feed was rather subdued - I was highly disappointed following the last two which were hilarious.
Once again, Romney seemed to win the day by not winning the day if you were following Twitter. That's all I can say about Romney - there wasn't much snark about him.
A lot of the ad-hoc Twitter commentary about Bachmann's "666" comment was a huge disaster for her in the vein of "OH NO - NOT AGAIN!". She is in a state of denial (which isn't a river in Egypt) - somebody needs to tell her - look, we've got a really nice cabinet/advisory post for you if we take the White House - get out while the gettin' is good.
Huntsman is a very witty guy - but it doesn't work for him - ever. I don't even know why he's there - its almost as if the media wants to push him over the finish line, but the brakes are locked and the transmission is in full reverse.
Newt is Newt - you love him or you hate him and once again the Twitter crowd demonstrated that.
Cain - This guy intrigues me I must admit. But he seems to have this angry, defiant "I'm gonna bite your face off" appearance that is annoying. Just look at Cain in that picture above and tell me that he's not a very angry man.
Perry - Ugh, really Rick? Honestly? Why are you running again? Post debate comment: "Reason we fought the revolution in the 16th century was to get away from that kind of onerous crown". 16th Century? 1576? Onerous crown? W T H? A loser once again - the exact opposite of Romney, losing by not losing. He's just not capable of being a good presidential candidate. Let's travel in the Way Back Machine to when I said Perry may play well in Texas but I didn't think he would play well on the national stage. I am so right its scary because I'm often not right on anything.
Sanitorium Santorum - he really is a jerk isn't he? Twitter pretty much proves that - he's not liked at all.
The Twitter crowd did like the format though - that was a huge plus for all the candidates. Made them look a little more relaxes and informally formal.
Over all, I'd have to say that it's pretty much down to Perry and Mitt and if I were a betting man, Mitt's got it pretty much wrapped up. There really isn't enough time to really damage him - it would have been done by now - either Bachmann or Perry would have done it. He's picking up some very key endorsements for conservative icons, Christie being the latest - the nomination is his to lose.
Now, let's talk "Draft Jimmy McMillan" movement. It is well past time to elect a guy who has a cool mustache and a really funny demeanor. It is just the prescription that the country needs. Plus, he has a built in campaign slogan "Indeed, the rent IS too damn high". Can't you just see the rally - thousands of rapt attendees - the punch line "THE RENT IS TO DAMN HIGH!!" ringing out to the rafters raising the roof to new heights - I'm telling you, it brings tears to my eyes it does.
DRAFT JIMMY McMILLAN - HE'LL LOWER YOUR RENT!!
Give me chills...
So far Mitt has gotten a pass from the media because he's the most "reasonable" (which means they think he's the most squishy and malleable). That will change as soon as he's the nominee.
Prediction: Expect to hear a hell of a lot in 2012 about SCARY MORMONS! and their SCARY MORMONICITY! And POLYGAMY! And THAT ONE TIME BACK IN THE 1850s WHEN SOME MORMONS KILLED SOME GUYS! And MORMONS! And POLYGAMY!
Tom, I wouldn't take the Twitter crowd as a good sample for determining or even guessing what most folks think, regardless of how interesting it might be.
Oh I disagree - my Twitter feed has all the usual conservative voices like Ed Morrissey, Allahpundit, AoS and the merry band of Morons, the crew from Protein Wisdom and The Hostages, Part Deaux plus some of the more entertaining conservative voices like Steyn, Red State crew and Iowahawk.
These are not stupid people and are recognized conservative personalities in both the blogosphere and new media.
Sam - I kept noticing he used some funny word like 'Twatter' or 'Twitter'. I couldn't quite figure out what it was, although I take it from context that it's some kind of high school "chat line" or sumpin'. On the other hand, as Bruce pointed out the other day, he and Tom are really, really old, so maybe it's one of those "second childhood" stories you read about. Or maybe he's "reliving his lost youth" by hanging out with the high school crowd. And who can blame him?
Say, are you one of those Twatter people? Sam and I were just talking about you guys! Ah, I miss high school, too. Sure, the girls weren't all that developed, but man, they were fresh. And getting an allowance from the folks? Damn, if that didn't have 'heaven on earth' written all over it. If you and your Twatter friends have actually managed to convince yourselves that you're back in high school, you have my deepest envy of a job well done.
"Post debate comment: "Reason we fought the revolution in the 16th century was to get away from that kind of onerous crown".
Well, sure. Because if there's one person's opinion I'm going to give the highest regard to, it's some Leftist twit a'twittering on Twitter. Who wouldn't?
Gingrich's commanding presence and intellect? In which category fit his adulterous affairs? Of course, it's OK he couldn't keep his pants zipped. He did it because of his love for the US of A. See thebrodyfile at cbn for excuses ... uh, explanation.
I fail to see how one's sex life has any bearing on how they administrate the duties of office.
Newt would not be a good president. He is from the old school that enslaves Americans and stirs the pot every now and then to let the peons think they are participating in the political process.
One's sex life has direct bearing on their character and recently our presidents have lacked the moral character to be a strong leader in America or in the world. Character counts -- unless you want another president who is going to lie to us every day and will destroy the US of A even more than it is now.
Therefore, according to your logic, Barack Obama, acknowledged to be a 'good family man', is a strong leader, never lies to us, and would never destroy the US of A. Well, more than it already is, of course.
Did you actually use the word "enslaves"?
You use a poor straw man in your supposition Dr Mercury. The MSM told us that Clinton was a good family man also; yet, we knew that he was seeing girls on the side all the time. Do you remember when Clinton was using the tunnels to get away from the White House to visit his girls? The White House spokesman along with the MSM told us that there were no tunnels under D.C. so the President couldn't be sneaking out. Of course there are tunnels all over the District. I have been in them. Is a continuation of the lies, the coverups, the destruction of America what you want?
Yes enslave. Please don't forget what Newt told us when he was in Congress and what he voted for. The MSM and many blogs are ignoring his past record. He enslaved us. (With the help of both parties.) You fail to see our enslavement in the same manner as your North Eastern lobster in the cooking pot fails to see he is dinner.
We are enslaved and Newt played a major part in that enslavement. But as Bill said, that depends on what your definition of is is.
Er, the only 'straw man' here are your own words. I added nothing to the conversation. I merely used your own logic as it applied to Mr. Obama. You were very clear on the subject.
At this precise moment, I could get on a plane and move to France. Isn't it possible that your definition of the word "enslaved" is somewhat outside of the mainstream?
Actually I am in tune with the mainstream of Americans in flyover country. We are the ones paying the bills for Americans who are concerned that major league basketball may not play a complete season but who are not concerned that we are still trying to get rid of Gaddafi and that we are blowing up Yemen as fast as we can. We are concerned about the destruction of America rather than games.
You missed the character counts point entirely. That is OK because most on the Eastern Seaboard don't get that point at all.
Dr Mercury, you and I don't see eye to eye because you like Newt's intelligence and locution. He is moving from his twenty year old jokes and ideas to Paul's ideas. I don't like Newt's long Congressional record of lies, sell outs, his enslavement of Americans and his inability to follow our Constitution. He is a thief, a liar and a low class bum in a fancy suit.
Please, feel free to leave tonight. You can make the JFK evening departures and Air France has tremendous service. I will be happy to give you air miles so you can upgrade to business class for the journey.
"Please, feel free to leave tonight."
I would, but some guy keeps insisting I'm "enslaved" (his exact word, mind you), therefore I'm obviously unable to leave by definition alone. If I could, then that would mean I wasn't actually "enslaved", thus making him look like a (fill in blank).
Okay, let me ask you this. If you're so in tune with mainstream America, how come it's so rare to see someone actually using the word "enslave" that I asked you about it?
Dr Mercury, Americans don't use the word slave or its derivatives because they are afraid of being demonized by those who don't understand our language. Niggardly comes to mind in case you forgot that example.
In the Rocky Mountain West and Southern states, citizens are generally more reliable and more resourceful than those back East. This is pointed out by a Boston Globe article where a couple got lost in a corn maze and called the cops to get them out. http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1372740
In the same manner, Newt went for years saying one thing in Congress and voting the opposite way. You like Newt so you don't see yourself being enslaved by our government's intrusion into our lives. Just think of how much our taxes have increased. Think about how the TSA intrudes on travel and really doesn't provide a solid service to America. Think about how many in Congress want to take away your liberties listed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
For example, the Sneak and Peek laws that everyone in the East and California wanted after 9-11 are severely abused. We were told that they would be used for anti-terror purposes. In an approximately 3 year period US Justice Department figures showed that in over 1,000 searches only 15 were for terror suspects. The vast majority were used to gather information on drug users/pushers. That is the type of legislation that Newt likes. Say one thing to appease those who are scared and do another.
Minimum wage laws are designed to keep low income workers at that extremely low wage. They are designed to keep employers from running their businesses in the way they see fit. Now for those who think everyone would be working at $1.50 an hour, keep in mind that in Aspen McD's hires workers at almost twice the Colorado minimum wage because no one will work there otherwise. Similar wage adjustments were made for apple pickers in Washington state when ICE ran off the illegal pickers.
Welfare is full of slavery. Just look at the rules inside that system. Yes they have big screen TVs and nice cars but that is at my expense. Social Security is slavery. Do you participate of your free will or are you forced under punishment of law to contribute? Prior to the 1960s military individuals did not pay into SS. When LBJ needed more money for his Great Society he enlisted the military pay check to pay for it. The program was designed only for truly poor people. Now we are all included in the system without choice.
Look at Newt's voting record on health care. Do you think there is any chance that he will repeal Obamacare? Not in this world. Obamacare, minus the long list of exceptions, when fully enacted will make it a necessity to purchase a commodity to be a US Citizen. The vast majority of Americans were not in favor of Obamacare yet the ruling elite forced it upon us.
The reason that more people don't speak up on these issues is because they are afraid of being ridiculed or being punished and because they are ignorant of the issues at hand. If you got out to states where farmers and others are barely making it while illegals are living on free health care, not paying Social Security and other taxes, you will hear the conversations about being enslaved.
"That is OK because most on the Eastern Seaboard don't get that point at all."
"If you got out to states where-"
People sure make odd assumptions. I was born and raised in CA, and have lived in New England, the Midwest, the West, the Northwest, and recently Las Vegas, then central Florida and now the Keys. Ironically, about the only place I haven't lived is the Eastern Seaboard.
Dave - By the way, I had to delete your comment because that link you left was expanding the width of the page by twice, making everything impossible to read.
First, it's interesting to see how all of them are campaigning against Obama, and remaining relatively cordial to each other.
Second, I once read that Ted Kennedy was a master at passing on a question and answering with what he wanted to say. Evidently that's a Mass thing, b/c I'm tired of Romney not answering questions but delivering (trite) campaign speeches. Oh yeah, he's no master at it either, b/c his transitions are clumsy and obvious. He looked like a gladhanding fool.
Third, Bachmann was a one trick pony: everything is Freddie and Fannie's fault. It was a good intro, but got tiresome at past the second refrain.
Fourth, Gingrich was great, but all he did was repeat previous Ron Paul statements.
Fifth, Cain was feisty. Americans like that. The point about opening up a new line revenue for the Fed Gov is a weak counter argument. That's not a big problem, b/c he was adamant about reforming the full tax code. That plays well. He was an ass when Paul challenged him on the Fed audit, but at least Paul was proven right. However, people will like Cain for being feisty. Economy is his venue and he did it well.
If you want to nail Cain then you better talk about his utter lack of knowledge about: Military, Intelligence, Foreign Diplomacy, and all things Politics.
Sixth, Perry played along w/ Romney and tried to change the subject to his energy plan. That and the fact that he had his state government doing the investment. Sure, that never goes wrong. He looked like a fool most of the night, even Bachmann trumped him.
Seventh, Paul got fewer questions than anyone but Santorum (tied). Paul was just ok, time to be honest about that. Paul wasn't ready w/ quick answers. The rest of the panel stole much of his material, and he didn't have anything to add that was pithy enough for this style of debate. Paul was affirmed by everyone on that panel yet he didn't get much credit.
Why are Republicans so foolish as to hold their debates on a left-wing campus with a left-wing moderator?
Why not in Idaho with a Pajamas Media moderator?
Who, ultimately, represents the America outside of the Northeast? Nobody, so it seems.
Well, I expected the questions at the 'Tea Party Debate' a while back to be fair, and they were some of the most biased we've seen. I don't think we're ever going to get a 'break' in that regard. Hell, maybe it's better this way. Keeps us on our toes, and all that.