Maggie's Farm

Not sure I agree with this, either. While most people don't know that Alcock and Brown first crossed the Atlantic in a plane, they most certainly did and they DO get credit for it. (some call it non-stop, but they did stop in the Azores, so I'm not sure that really counts as non-stop).

However, everyone remembers Lindbergh. Why? Frankly, I think it's because he's American and we, as Americans, have a penchant for forgetting the first people who do things if they AREN'T American. Example - most people forget that Yuri Gagarin was the first man in space. In fact, most forget that Alan Shepard and Gus Grissom went into space before John Glenn. To most Americans, Glenn was "the first man in space".
He most certainly wasn't even the 4th!!! But he was the first American to complete a full orbit of the earth. And that counts for "something", though it really isn't anything of substantial value except a marketing ploy.

Lindbergh gets credit for the first NONSTOP Atlantic flight (more to the point, he did it solo), which goes to your point about incremental versus just going....but if Lindbergh had done what Alcock and Brown did, it's likely he'd still be remembered as the "first to cross the Atlantic" only because he's American.

correction, they did not stop in the Azores. But they crossed from Newfoundland to Ireland. It was Albert Cushing Read who made the stops. Either way, he was English and by default forgotten.

Ah...just read this one....you can ignore #15 now.

I'd generally disagree with you on this bit of logic. While Magellan doesn't specifically get the credit, I view it the same way that Patton viewed his victory at el Gitar. While he didn't defeat Rommel, he defeated Rommel's plan. Is there a distinct difference? No, not really.

Magellan may not have completed the circumnavigation, but it was his plan and his crew which accomplished the feat. Therefore the credit is his. Engaging the debate as you did is a bit of unique sophistry. It works, it's plausible, but it's also really just being tricky.

Sure, Drake is the first captain to finish the job to completion, but that doesn't mean he was first.

Oh, and Michael Collins and Ed Aldrin. I was lucky to meet all 3 when I was a child. I got to meet Al Worden of Apollo 15 4 years ago, with my kids.

Most people remember Aldrin because it's hard to forget a name like "Buzz" - much cooler than Neil.

By the way, something occurred to me with regard to the Apollo missions, or any "first" requiring a team effort.

Humans are, generally, a very lazy creature when it comes to exercising the intellect. We prefer to make our understanding of events and history simplistic. Along those lines, we tend to pay attention to the "one guy" who "did" something, even if it was a team effort. Gene Kranz was as much a part of moon landings as any of the crewmembers. So was any other member of the ground team. That we don't remember all their names doesn't diminish their role, it's just that trying to remember all their names would require alot of effort.

Along those lines, trying to remember every single one of the members of Magellan's crew who finished would be quite taxing indeed. But we know that Magellan planned and financed the mission. So it's "his".

I am reminded of the story of Richard Feynman and Julian Schwinger. Both won the Nobel Prize for their work on Quantum Electrodynamics, the Schwinger Model being quite substantive and elaborate. Feynman did the same thing - but vastly simplified it, opening up the knowledge base considerably. Feynman got much more credit and notoriety for his work than Schwinger, though Schwinger was first. Schwinger was always somewhat bitter about this, but Feynman always put him off with comments that there may be more than one way to get something done, and it doesn't make either one wrong - but the one which is easier to work with will be more popular.

From my POV, it's easier to say "Magellan circumnavigated the globe" than it is to day "Magellan's crew circumnavigated the globe."
It's easier to say "Armstrong went to the moon" than it is to say "Armstrong, Collins and Aldrin went to the moon thanks to the teamwork and effort of many people."

Am I taking this all too seriously? Probably. But it's a slow day for me and for some reason this really caught my attention.

Doc, while Magellan himself didn't circumnavigate, his crew did. When they crossed the Pacific and he was killed in the Philippines, the remainder of the crew continued on. In fact, they were shocked to return home to Spain and find out that they had been celebrating Mass on the WRONG DAY (because of the International Date Line, something completely unknown at the time). The only way they could have done this is to circumnavigate.

So, I'm curious as to the claim regarding Drake - are you making the claim for the captain himself, or for anyone in particular? Because if it's anyone in particular, then it is the crew of Magellan's ship.

It is true of any country....but being the wealthiest and most highly promoted country, we get to push our guys to the top alot more often.
As for Magellan - your question was "Who first sailed around the world." OK, so it wasn't Magellan specifically, but it was his crew. And being his crew, he gets a level of credit. Drake was only the first captain to do it.

As for a first where someone fell halfway but still got credit - I cannot come up with one, either. Doesn't mean it didn't happen OR (more likely) Magellan is the only one it's happened to. Can you think of anyone who wasn't first, but got the credit because the other guy died and his sidekick finished?

There is one minor one I can think of - Burke and Wills. While many indigenous folk had likely crossed this region, they were the first to do it....and they died. But they still get credit.

And right now there is alot of question as to whether Edmund Hillary was the first to climb Everest given that Mallory's body was found 12 years ago, suggesting he may have reached the summit (we'll only know if we find his camera, of course, but the location of his body suggests he did accomplish the feat).

Even so, the likelyhood that someone completed a "first" and died usually means we'll NEVER know (as in Mallory's case) because the evidence is missing. In Magellan's case, the evidence is clear - his crew finished the job.

If a general dies in battle, but his army wins, generally he gets credit for the victory (or his replacement does). I'm not sure why this situation would be any different.