Re-posted because the speech is so interesting: Charles Murray discusses American civic culture

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Monday, April 29. 2013

Re-posted because the speech is so interesting: Charles Murray discusses American civic culture

Do not miss this speech - it is fascinating video: The State of White America. It's 60+ info-packed minutes. Murray is like a statistically-armed de Toqueville for our time. I needed to hear it twice. The guy is delightful to listen to.

It's not really about politics, but he does mention American principles, American Exceptionalism, and what is required for a self-governing citizenry. "Self-governing," of course, has a dual meaning.

A lot of it is about class and "social capital" in America.

One quote from him: "The upper middle class seems to be keeping all the good stuff to itself: religion, marriage, morality, civic and social engagement, industriousness, and long work hours..."

Another: "The federal government can be accused of confusing itself with the rooster who believes that his crowing is what makes the sun rise..."

Another: "Marriage civilizes men." (Yes, the gals do try, don't they? And we guys fight back, pathetically, by not shaving on Saturday morning.)

Another useful phrase: "The people who makes things more difficult for their fellow citizens..."

All very interesting and relevant. I don't care much about class, college degrees, or elitism, but I do care about integrity, responsibility, curiosity, industriousness, and a number of other character traits. And of course I do care about traditional American culture and the work ethic. Like Murray, I do not buy into the European "relaxation" ethic and the aspiration for a stress-free life: humans are not cattle, and cannot have dignity or pride without being productive or constructive in whatever ways they can find. Anybody can make themselves useful if they want to.

Posted by Bird Dog in Best Essays of the Year, Our Essays, Politics, The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 12:40 | Comments (16) | Trackbacks (2)

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Class, Social Capital, and Character Traits
Like some other readers, I found Charles Murray's presentation fascinating, last month. I have been thinking about it. As I commented then, sociologists tend not to discuss psychology. A good rule of thumb is that a person's character traits - personali

Weblog: Maggie's Farm
Tracked: Jun 10, 09:12

A Lecture Worth Watching
I saw this linked over at Maggie's Farm and decided to give it a look. Despite the video's title - The State of White America - Charles Murray's lecture it is not about race but about culture and increasing...

Weblog: Weekend Pundit
Tracked: Apr 30, 22:59

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its not the government its the politican that thinks they make the sun rise.

#1 tommy mc donnell (Link) on 2011-04-09 10:21 (Reply)

It might be worth watching, but it's 86 minutes and that'll take 2 hours to load on my computer.

#2 Sam L. on 2011-04-09 12:07 (Reply)

Years ago I nearly made it through The Bell Curve, the massive book Murray co-wrote about intelligence and how we measure it. Of course the liberals and academics attacked it as racist without ever picking it up. Maybe the co-author was Horenstein? Another good Murray title: Losing Ground.

#3 Paul on 2011-04-09 12:43 (Reply)

started watching this morn, finished after work this eve. Good stuff. Talk ends at 48 mins in, then q&a. working/thinking from facts makes a good deal of difference! Thanks for this link.

#4 mark (Link) on 2011-04-09 23:21 (Reply)

One of the best links ever put on Maggie's Farm.

His speech is not nearly 86 minutes.

A lot of the video is a Q and A session.

Here is the summary:

Have Morals
Go to Church
Stay married

Everything else takes care of itself, and America is a better place because of those 3 things.

#5 Mark M on 2011-04-10 14:59 (Reply)

I never could get it to play. The wheel of death spins continually but that is as far as it gets.

My connection must be too slow. Or something.

#6 feeblemind on 2011-04-10 16:28 (Reply)

Being a sociological researcher, he doesn't take character into account.

Character is destiny, as the Greeks used to say.

#7 Dr B on 2011-04-10 16:29 (Reply)

I do care about traditional American culture and the work ethic.

Heh. I promised the fellow who is buying our home that I would clear out the brush down back and the out-of-control wild raspberry bushes along the property line, cut down the two huge ash trees that oriental bitter sweet killed over a couple of years and trim/prune the apple, peach and plum trees.

I put an add in the local fish wrap for workers - $15/hr and didn't get a bite the first or second week when a immigrant Mexican stone mason (a hell of a stone mason by the way) who was between jobs. He offered to bring his crew up for a set price. I agreed and he showed up with 5 guys at 6:30 AM, all Mexicans and everything was done, cleaned up and finished by 1 PM. And it cost me less than it would have if I had hired four guys at $15/hr for 8 hours.

I think that says something about the state of our "educated" work force - only I don't know what.

I do know that I'd hire these guys again without question.

#8 Tom Francis on 2011-04-10 17:20 (Reply)

Mexican illegals get plenty of the woirk here in Albuquerque.

But hiring such makes yall criminal here and there.

#8.1 Leag on 2011-04-14 12:45 (Reply)

These are both wonderful talks, which I've been listening to all morning. Thanks for the link.

#9 Texan99 (Link) on 2011-04-11 13:35 (Reply)

On the one hand - Murray uses data by income class to make a point about our changing national culture.

On the other hand - we know that American society is incredibly mobile. So many, many of the families that were in one income class in the 1960s would be in another class in the 2000s.

Murray never explicitly addresses this. This is especially glaring since he identifies stable family structure as an index for economic success. If that's true - how do you explain the mobility over time? What cultural forces cause children born into upper-middle class stability to fail out of that pattern?

#10 Ben David on 2011-04-14 03:04 (Reply)

Excellent point.

#10.1 Bird Dog on 2011-04-14 06:14 (Reply)

It seems to me as an observer that the Protestant Work Ethic has pretty much been taken over by Ghetto Culture as the mainstream influence in the U.S. Everyone is now automatically entitled to everything, from Obamaphones to free healthcare and imprudent mortgages, and somebody else needs to pony up the money to pay for it.

The other thing that strikes me, as someone who doesn't visit the continental U.S. often any more, is that every time I am there it seems like immigrants are the only folks working, I mean REALLY working. Everyone else is just sitting around playing paper pushing games, like the inane and irritating folks who populate The Office (never did understand the point of that show--I've seen it mainly as mindless TV pushed on long plane flights). My feeling is that if the immigrants are willing to work hard, they deserve to take over the country.

#11 Jim on 2013-04-29 14:46 (Reply)

Jim, I agree with you.

#11.1 shirley in Memphis on 2013-04-29 16:21 (Reply)

I got 4 pallets of sod last weekend, and paid the boys (11 and 9) across the street $5 an hour to help me out. They did a great job, not perfect, but worked hard, and didn't complain. Their Dad came over a few times to make sure they were working hard. Of course these kids are a bit unusual. They play ball 3-4 hours on Sat and Sun. They get the value of work. I told the Dad I blame the parents that their sons are willing to work for money.
That said we likely broke 5-10 child labor laws.
Although I haven't yet watched the video, I think we teach our kids not to work. Sports become all consuming, full time adult led and controlled full time careers (travel teams, lengthy practices, etc.). Kids are in day care or school or after school activities all day--they have limited opportunity to just decide what to do and play, or just do nothing but watch a cloud or an ant. Mom's used to let them play on their own. Now you can all but be charged with child endangerment if you're not actively watching your child 24/7. Kids have no opportunity to learn self reliance. They can't get jobs until 16 or older, and the minimum wage laws have all but priced them out of the market. In short, we're raising our kids, as a society, to be dependent.
Now to watch the video.

#12 Mark on 2013-04-29 21:53 (Reply)

Not being a churchgoing man, in general, I choose Sunday mornings to skip shaving. She doesn't always tolerate it.

#13 Knucklehead (Link) on 2013-04-30 12:36 (Reply)

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Monday, April 29. 2013

Re-posted because the speech is so interesting: Charles Murray discusses American civic culture