Maggie's Farm

We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.

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Wednesday, January 26. 2011

Listen, Really Listen, To Young Lesbian "Coming Out" Speech

This young lady speaks of her experiences and feelings as many gay friends have described them to me.  She is eloquent and, as far as I can know, correct. -- I'm sure there are as proportionately many straight kooks as gay.  I'm sure that, if there are proportionately more among gays, it may largely come from evolving in an atmosphere of fears. I, or you, may not support some aspects of the gay political agenda, but let's never discriminate against honesty and love. 


Posted by Bruce Kesler at 10:59 | Comments (33) | Trackbacks (0)

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I don't have any negative feeling for someone who is gay or someone who is not. I think mindless and harmful discrimination is ignorant.

However my point here is very different. This young lady may indeed be gay. Or she may think she is gay having been talked into it to support friends who are ghay or think they are gay. Or she may have a rebellious streak and this helps her fulfill that streak. Without all the gay pride and pro-gay propaganda this young lady may have just lived a normal life (no offense meant I could not think of another word that would get my meaning across). I am reminded of the young American lady killed in Garza by a bulldozer. Her family fully supported her activism. But she is dead because of that choice, a martyr for her parents who groomed her for this. Or another young woman who went to South Africa to help the poor black population and was brutally raped and murdered by those she sought to help. Again she had been groomed to do this. She didn't consider all options for her life and choose to go to South Africa to be raped and killed she was pushed and propergandized and buillied into it buy others.

So fine! Let this young lady follow here dream/desire/belief. But lets hope she too was not groomed and will have to spend the second half of her life overcoming the harm visited upon her in the first half of her life. I don't know her and I assume you don't know her either but if it were possible I would be willing to bet that in 10 or 20 years from now she will not be a Lesbian and will resent/regret her decisions of her youth. No one makes decisons in a vacuum and young people often make bad decisions. Which is exactly the reason our schools and other institutions that cater too or are aimed at our children should be devoid of negative or un-useful rhetoric/propaganda. We should be lifting up all our children but not propagandizing them.
#1 GoneWithTheWind on 2011-01-26 11:54 (Reply)
THANK YOU!

I wanted to write something along those lines, but you said it more eloquently and efficiently than I could.
#1.1 DrTorch on 2011-01-26 12:24 (Reply)
This whole business of these dramatic coming out routines is wearing kind of thin. It is as though there is a competition under way whereby gays feel compelled to slap up their own coming out video.

The expression of love is something that nobody so far has been able to adequately describe in its fullness. To think that that some obviously rehearsed, dramatic video is going to accomplish what poets and writers, many of whom were gay as well, have tried for millennia to do is quite frankly astonishingly egotistical.

Of course, just sayin' is all, ya know...
#2 Baruch (Link) on 2011-01-26 11:55 (Reply)
I agree with you about how to treat our fellow man (and woman). I separate the gay person from the gay with an agenda similarly to separating the black from the black with an agenda. I accept the person readily, but I do not accept the person with an agenda (usually a chip on their shoulder) who sees his identity as a political agenda. However, seeing pictures of a San Francisco Folsom Street Fair/demonstration/exhibition, I could quarrel with you about the relative numbers of kooks - gay vs straight - and one probably would not jump to the conclusion that their behavior was a result of fear. They obviously may not be representative of all gays, though.
#3 mudbug on 2011-01-26 12:00 (Reply)
Can we just stop talking about sex and sexual orientation/preferences in public? I'm sick of it. I will give this young lady all the benefit of the doubt, but really, do we all need to know she prefers girls to boys at least at this stage of her life...really?

Too much emoting in general. I'm all for more personal repression of the urge to tell all, back to more personal privacy and dignity.
#4 phil g on 2011-01-26 12:02 (Reply)
Count me a skeptic about anybody who proclaims themselves an exclusive lesbian before age 35 or 40.

Problem is that 1) It's fashionable and attention- getting, and 2) it's easier than putting up with guys.
#5 BD on 2011-01-26 12:05 (Reply)
A wonderful, heartfelt and emotional performance. Just in time for Oscar season. I laughed, I cried, but I won't recommend it to my young'ns.
#6 Phil M Kritick on 2011-01-26 12:22 (Reply)
In 2010, she's not risking anything. Except maybe a lot of her fellow students saying, "boring"

She's made a choice and now she wants approval and she probably was showered with it after the speech.

In the mid 1980s, I hung out with a lot of homosexuals of both sexes because my brother was in that lifestyle at that time. He left it about 8 years before he died.

In all my conversations with homosexuals, it became clear to me that it was all about the thrill of forbidden fruit and rebellion. Rebellion against society, family, God, or some combination thereof.

I will treat all human beings with the respect that they deserve. But I don't have to condone, respect, or celebrate perverse lifestyles. Another way to state it is this: I don't have any need or desire to know how you fornicate.

If you don't want to know about my opinion on what you do in the bedroom, don't tell me what you do in the bedroom.
#7 Moshe Ben-David on 2011-01-26 12:24 (Reply)
Moshe, like you I refuse to celebrate perverse lifestyles. Furthermore, her exhibition is pure narcissism. Keep it to yourself, for crying out loud.
#8 Roger B. on 2011-01-26 12:36 (Reply)
The Onion knows where this will end.

Lesbian Identity Ends Abruptly Mid-Junior Year
http://www.theonion.com/articles/lesbian-identity-ends-abruptly-midjunior-year,1505/

"OBERLIN, OH—Three semesters after adopting the sexual identity, Amanda Oppel, a junior women's-studies major at Oberlin College, abruptly dropped her highly politicized lesbian stance Monday...."

"Really? An East Coast rebel girl suddenly isn't a dyke anymore halfway through her junior year of college? That's shocking," said Gwen Mims, 46, author and Oberlin women's-studies professor. "What a stunner. Wow."
#9 Looking Glass on 2011-01-26 12:49 (Reply)
Drama Queen.
#10 Art C on 2011-01-26 13:18 (Reply)
I didn't watch the video and can't speak to the sincerity or wisdom of this teen.
I'm often disappointed by comments like Moshe's and Roger's -- the "hate the sin, love the sinner" variety. I acknowledge that this attitude is far better than the Islamic position or the Westboro Baptist position. But the "hate the sin" position seems rooted in hating homosexuality. I empathize and agree with homosexuals who take the position, "You hate what I am, you hate the only way I can enjoy sex, even though it is consensual and harmless and certainly does you and yours no harm. That sure sounds like you hate me, even if you say otherwise."
Moshe and Roger are under no obligation to accept anyone's lifestyle as long as they don't interfere. I feel an obligation to reiterate that I've known too many people of too many ways of living to consider homosexuality evil or perverse. I only find it different.
None of this extends to sexual predators of any variety, naturally.
#11 Geoff Brown on 2011-01-26 14:15 (Reply)
For a couple of years, Maggie's Farm has been in my favorites and at least a few times a week, I drop in to see what fare awaits my curious mind. Today, I almost deleted the site from my regulars. Honestly, I thought you guys were united in philosophy...sort of. I don't hate gays, but I recognize from years of law enforcement and public service (33) that it is not a viable lifestyle. You can spout all the political correctness you wish and more so with a pretty face, but it is still an unnatural bent to the dignity of humanity. More Bird dog please.
#12 david smith on 2011-01-26 15:28 (Reply)
If we all agreed, some of us would be obsolete.
#12.1 pajak on 2011-01-26 16:45 (Reply)
I'm of the opinion to let people pursue their happiness as they see fit. I've got no issue if from time to time, somebody who is pursuing a non-traditional life has the opportunity to let the rest of us know what it's like.

I think that some of the visceral reaction against the non-traditionalists is a reaction against what seems to be a glorification of free-ridership. The free-rider is saying, I want to pursue my happiness, but without taking up the heavy commitment of getting married to the Other, having children, raising a family, and foregoing all those attractive opportunities available to the singles and unmarrieds. Opportunities that my parents gave up for me.

Think about it this way: getting married and raising a passel of kids has to be about the most rewarding thing a person can do. It just has to be, and evolution and God has ensured it to be so. Someone who pursues a non-traditional life takes a heavy penalty up front and for always. Our God doesn't seem so beneficent when He puts this heavy challenge in front of them: that the non-traditionalists will always be outsiders looking in. So leave them be. Like everyone, they are trying to make the best life they can in this vale of tears, with the gifts and challenges they have been given.
#13 John A. Fleming on 2011-01-26 15:53 (Reply)
Leave them be indeed, if that were allowed. This activistology demands the redefining of marriage and so many other things from families to passports. When my house can have gay plumbing, I'll start respecting it as a natural choice.

This is no "coming out" speech. This is acting and activism, carefully cultivated, exhaustively rehearsed, and expertly coached and crafted to include all the current talking points and emotional hot buttons. I expect it has already gone viral on all the social networks dedicated to retooling culture.

And the oft-exploited Martin Luther King, Jr. hath rolled in his grave yet again...
#13.1 Crock o' Tears on 2011-01-26 16:05 (Reply)
'This is no "coming out" speech. This is acting and activism, carefully cultivated, exhaustively rehearsed, and expertly coached and crafted to include all the current talking points and emotional hot buttons.'

I had the same feeling.
#13.1.1 weaver on 2011-01-26 16:58 (Reply)
I agree and my comments are below (#18)
#13.1.1.1 Mike M on 2011-01-26 18:39 (Reply)
I don't disagree that she has the gift for public speaking, and this speech was prepared and rehearsed. Good for her. I won't speculate beyond that as to this speech's genesis. She had her opportunity, and she took it. We can always hit the pause button and link away if it gets too uncomfortable, or we get too annoyed by the narcissism. The students were a captive audience. It didn't kill 'em to hear it all, and now they recognize the type. The ultimate effect that this speech may have, may be not what its creator (and supporters?) intended.
#13.1.1.2 John A. Fleming on 2011-01-26 20:26 (Reply)
Wow.

All I can say is, the community that checks in with Maggie's Farm isn't the community I had thought it was.

She spends the toughest years of everyone's lives - the early teens - learning that her very essence disgusts "normal" people - the realization of which causes so many teen suicides - and she's strong enough to try to make people talk about why. Your reactions? It's perverse? It's not a viable lifestyle?

Proclaiming that it's not a viable lifestyle while you're trying to stomp its head flat in order to make sure it's not a viable lifestyle seems a bit tautological.

Asking that we not discuss such icky lives while continuing to treat those lives as garbage for reasons which we don't have to discuss because they're icky - and knowing that you can say such a thing only because you know you'll get lots of quiet agreement from your fellow klansmen - damn - all I can say is, y'all deserve yourselves and each other.

I've know a lot of gay folk, but I've never met one who chose to be gay, and I've not seen anyone's sexual orientation hurt others. Fearful bigotry, on the other hand, seems to be a matter of choice, plus its greatest expression appears to be in the maiming of others.

So, here's hoping that yours is the truly non-viable lifestyle.
#14 bobby b on 2011-01-26 17:48 (Reply)
Many of us are Yankees. We mind our own business and aren't given to big public displays.

"Hey everyone, look at me! I'm gay!"

I know how to mind my own business and don't care what she does in the bedroom. I'm also uninpressed by preachy teenagers. Teenagers are idiots.
#14.1 NJSoldier on 2011-01-26 20:02 (Reply)
bobby.b:
All I can say is, the community that checks in with Maggie's Farm isn't the community I had thought it was.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Translation:

1) You knuckle-draggers aren't getting with the program, so I will repeat the talking points - with more explicit hints about the appropriate PC reaction and opinions...

2) Your skeptical - and accurate - dismantling of this manipulative agenda threatens my own self-image as someone more intelligent/perceptive/humane than you - so I have to shore up my ego, and restore the cultural pecking order, by lecturing The Little People....
#14.2 Ben David on 2011-01-27 03:58 (Reply)
I always love to provoke my polar opposites.
#14.3 david smith on 2011-01-27 17:04 (Reply)
Only a few short weeks after assuming her new role, the new lesbian university President called her secretary on Sunday morning. The secretary was happily married with four kids. She met her new boss at the local McDonalds as requested. The new president tried to convince the secretary that she did not have to stay married--she could go free and have her new boss's support.

Several weeks after that the new president was seen in the car on campus with the woman she later put into the position of department chair. That woman had been in a "committed relationship for many years". But the people that claimed to have witnessed the scene say that it looked as if the new department chair was learning how--testing her new freedom. Homosexuality is about recruitment!
#15 faculty wife on 2011-01-26 17:51 (Reply)
Bruce I appreciate what I believe you were trying to accomplish with this post, but do find fault with the presentation. First your "Listen, really listen" intro is condescending an unnecessary. The Maggies crowd seem to me to be the rational sort and not knee jerk bible thumpers. Second this is less a "coming out" as it is a promotional video for both the gay lifestyle and an ideological aggression against any who don't ascribe to it's merits.

Let me say, as the brother of a gay male, I reject completely the attitudinal evangelism being foisted towards the celebration of homosexuality. We have abandoned the goal of tolerance long ago in favor of an outright rejection of any other notions that those in our society might sincerely hold in opposition to homosexuality.

I live in Mormon country out here. I have grown to appreciate and love many of them-but in no way love and celebrate their religion. They could also say "you reject who I am." If they were to make my acceptance of their religion a requirement of relationship, I could not comply. There are many things one could consider intrinsic to their being. It would be rude and self destructive to make acceptance of it a requirement for relationship on a societal level.

Sorry for the long response but this issue is close to home. This is a 3d subject that is often approached with platitudes or caricatures and not mutual respect. If any were to demean or try to harm my brother, they would have to go through me first.
#16 Brian in Idaho on 2011-01-26 18:31 (Reply)
Boo freakin' who!

She's gay. My neighbor is black. And I'm short.

It seems like every so often a fad pops up. For the last several decades, we have had "white guilt" that eventually morphed into wiggers (blame Snoop Dogg for the term, not me). Now, it seems like the new "cool" thing is coming out. Maybe 30 years ago it was a brave thing to announce that you were really gay, but today???? The girl dramatizes this too much. It looks like she wants attention.

Everybody's got issues. Get on with your life or get back in the closet!
#17 Mike on 2011-01-26 18:36 (Reply)
This has to be the most disappointing set of comments I have ever seen on Maggie's. The heart of the matter is that gays face discrimination and prejudice in many environments so it is not surprising that they, particularly teens who are full of angst already, struggle and seek to express themselves.

Sad lot of you "grown ups" above.
#18 Bomber Girl on 2011-01-26 21:15 (Reply)
Or not.
#18.1 DrTorch on 2011-01-27 10:11 (Reply)
Very well stated Bomber Girl! >>
#19 RL on 2011-01-27 01:00 (Reply)
All the "gay" people I knew growing up were heterosexual up through high school. They generally got into sexual experimentation and then into the gay lifestyle in college.

In that number I include my cousin (we were raised together so we're more like brothers). He had a girlfriend in high school, but then got into acting in college and then on Broadway and Hollywood, and all that brought with it (a lot of bisexual activity), and eventually decided he was "gay." He died of AIDS in '96, in his mid-thirties. His partner and their whole circle of friends died earlier, he was the last to go.

Having seen it up close and personal, I don't have a very charitable opinion of the whole "gay movement." It's harmful and has killed tens of thousands, as well as messing up countless others emotionally and psychologically. This girl is just another confused, brainwashed kid who has decided her problems must be due to the fact she's "gay." They've done very well at coaching her what to say.

Part of the problem is that heterosexual relationships among young people are pretty messed up as well. It's no wonder in particular that many girls reject the "hooking up" culture in this way.
#20 Jim on 2011-01-27 01:49 (Reply)
I lost all respect for maggies farm after this article.

It is fashionable to do things like this now a days. Very low risk sort of like getting a piercing or tattoo. A shameless grab for attention and status. We had these kind of displays in my school all the way back in the early 90s. "My teen angst more valid than yours" type move.

I agree with a lot of the responses posted here and the onion article is pure gold because it is true.
#21 Larry on 2011-01-27 10:21 (Reply)
This video will serve very well at getting this young lady into Juilliard.
#22 Phil M Kritick on 2011-01-27 11:56 (Reply)
I dislike labeling or self-promotion of any sort.
#23 Liz on 2011-01-27 12:08 (Reply)

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