A "Tutela valui" tattoo, and other things about the uses of Latin

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Sunday, May 17. 2009

A "Tutela valui" tattoo, and other things about the uses of Latin

One quote from the NYT Op-Ed:

When one Dickinson College alumna recently applied to work at a public school, she had a photocopied version of her Latin diploma returned as foreign and illegible.

All of my kids took Latin in grade school and high school. Good fun, and it has served them well. I took ancient Greek instead, plus French and German. Only fairly fluent in French now. Sorta-kinda. Can still read French or German OK if it's non-technical. Struggle with the Greek but have a feel for it, I think.

Posted by Bird Dog in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 08:07 | Comments (13) | Trackbacks (0)

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Maybe we will see a trend away from Latin usage on diplomas and such given greater ease with which one can decipher Latin today. With so many readily available on-line translation tools is it surprising that Spitzer can find it tattooed on his favorite call girl? Not only does this cause the snob appeal to fade, but it also exposes more grammatical errors (or perceived grammatical errors) making the effort look rather foolish.

#1 KRW on 2009-05-17 09:14 (Reply)

Yes, Latin is all about grammar.

#1.1 Bird Dog on 2009-05-17 09:26 (Reply)

BD, spend a few weeks in a Francophone country - or make some French friends and insist you speak only in their language - and you'll be amazed at how much will come back.

#2 Skookumchuk on 2009-05-17 09:18 (Reply)

Took in Mendelssohn's Elijah at the Sanders Theatre in Cambridge last weekend. The walls of Memorial Hall, which houses the theater, were covered with Latin scribblings. I think most of it was saying, "Dude, this is Harvard...check out the company you're keeping!" It was really very cool, it's just...I don't read Latin.

#3 Jephnol (Link) on 2009-05-17 10:10 (Reply)

When reading postings, one can tell those that have a Latin background and a second language skill.
Be it rusty or polished, it does show.

#4 Vermont Woodchuck (Link) on 2009-05-17 10:55 (Reply)

I doubt your assertion to be true, though it is provocative (and ever so slightly elitist).

#4.1 Jephnol (Link) on 2009-05-17 11:19 (Reply)

Really? After seeing the misspellings, tortured syntax, abused synonyms and verb agreements in postings and comments, I'd hardly consider my position to be elitist.

Consider it properly educated in a different age; not of today's public schools.

Forget not from where tomorrow's teaching stock is coming.

#4.1.1 Vermont Woodchuck (Link) on 2009-05-17 11:35 (Reply)

Yes, really, and what can you tell them? And I'll take a wild guess at this, but it's "those who", not "those that". You didn't take Latin. Did you take English? :-)

#4.2 Agent Cooper on 2009-05-18 03:37 (Reply)

Subjects of Latin indirect statements are in the accusative, and the verb is an infinitive. So far that's only a slightly annoying thing you have to deal with in high school Latin.

How many realize that it's duplicated in English? Subjects of non-finite verbs are in the objective case.

eg. Him coming was an annoyance.

or, For him to come was an annoyance.

(``for'' marks the subject of an infinitive, a better analysis than the subject being the object of ``for,'' and for that reason is in the objective case.)

#5 Ron Hardin (Link) on 2009-05-17 11:38 (Reply)

I took five years of Latin, four in high school and one in college, and all my working life I was grateful I had. All the romance languages owe much to Latin, especially our own. And since my jobs during my working days was to write for money, I wanted to write correctly. Latin helps a lot with that.

But try convincing your child that's true. Good luck with that.

Marianne

#6 Marianne Matthews on 2009-05-17 11:58 (Reply)

Marianne, the nuns never asked, they merely required. They were also extremely convincing as were parents.

#6.1 Vermont Woodchuck (Link) on 2009-05-17 13:17 (Reply)

I had the same problem with my degree in Latin from Middlebury College when I started my most recent engagement. Fortunately, most of the Bavarians I work with are Roman Catholic, and speak Latin, so they were able to translate / legitimize my degree to the HR people...

#7 Midd Kidd on 2009-05-17 19:27 (Reply)

I do so enjoy English as a second language. Latin would be a fun third language, had I time for study.

#8 Seppo on 2009-05-18 11:10 (Reply)

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Sunday, May 17. 2009

A "Tutela valui" tattoo, and other things about the uses of Latin