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Monday, October 5. 2009
Another point of view re Polansky, from NYM:
Tracked: Oct 06, 18:35
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I am ready to pay wholesale for NYM's opinion but not retail. A 13-year-old girl may have a dubious lifestyle and she's still 13. A responsible adult would not succumb to her charms if she initiated the encounter and a responsible adult wouldn't initiate the encounter himself (nor herself). These things make interesting fiction and wretched reality.
The level of force or coercion involved in the case seems open to question, I agree. That's what a jury would have worked on, if the case had gone that far. It didn't, and Polanski skipped on an open court case. At that point, whatever the merits of the case, he put himself squarely in the long sights of the American judicial system.
A jury might have found that an adult male, significantly larger than the girl, was coercing her when she struggled and called on him to stop. That would reach the level of forcible rape.
NYM may well be correct that the girl and her parents might have been bought off easily. Such things happened before and have happened since.
Thanks for putting this up, News Junkie.
Geoff, You could read her testimony. I don't think you'll find a scintilla of coercion. It may even have been the other way around, though Polanski did enjoy young women.
By the way, Polanski probably weighed less than the girl, and he may have been shorter. I doubt seriously if his penis got past the part the other guys used.
One question that did come to my mind BEFORE I found out about the financial agreement was "Did her mother have extortion in mind when she let her 13 year old daughter go unaccompanied to his house?"
Then AFTER I found out about the financial settlement I figured AHA! Maybe she did. That does NOT excuse Roman Polanski in any way, just makes me wonder (in my conspiratorial mind) if it wasn't a set up. Its happened before.
It happens all the time in Hollywood today, JoeC. That's why they call it the casting couch.
But I bet it never happened to Shirley Temple.
I have read the articles. If the girl's testimony is correct, there was an element of coercion by my definition. Polanski seems to have done some set-up, using alcohol to prepare a situation he could use. That's not coercion but it's criminal. If the girl's description of the events is correct, she made a feeble struggle and she clearly told Polanski to stop. He proceeded anyway. From the description of events in the Jacuzzi, he was taller than the girl. Most young teen girls are intimidated by grown men to some degree and this one may have been intimidated to some degree by size and to some degree by Polanski's status.
The girl comes off as foolish and possibly vampish. As the saying goes, bad cases make bad law. That she was not a virgin didn't make her fair game. If she was truthful in her testimony -- something I haven't heard seriously disputed but I know she could have been lying -- this qualified as rape-rape for me.
The jacuzzi was not over her head. She said it would bother her asthma more at that end because of the mist. She did not have to drink the champagne. She did not have to stay in the house. She called her mother to say she would be late, and Polanski also talked with the mother during the same call. She did not have to walk into the bedroom, or take off her dress, or take the quaalude. He forced none of that on her. Polanski is diminutive in size. She was no more impressed with Polanski's fame other than to know how to use it for gain. As for her being a druggie, and drinking previously, and having sex previously - so much for the bellowing about 'child'. I feel for guys caught up with sluts like this. They are easy prey and that's a fact.
Consider this: She and her mother probably planned this. The girl knew she would be deposed. She HAD to protest by her simpering 'no's' so she would not be lying to the grand jury. Not that she didn't lie......
I can't find it now. But I recently viewed a fairly recent video interview of Polanski in which he said he saw nothing wrong with what occurred that evening, at the time. Nothing.
He then said that it took him years to realize that there was something wrong with that evening. Which was the truth, who knows, maybe both.
I just know I wouldn't do what he did, no matter what set up. There is such a thing as self-control. I know that counts for nothing in this world I admit. But it's all I can say on the matter.
As to viewing the event as a 'payment dispute'. What a cynical, even if true, view of the world. I'll hold on to my outdated views, thank you very much. I'll be dead shortly and the world will tumble on no matter.
Payment dispute? What else was it about? It was extortion, and the only way the girl's family could manage it was to cry rape. They deposed the girl, the DA realized it would NOT go well in court for the girl or her mother, and the family then 'agreed' to settle out of court - their plans all along.
As for Polanski not realizing it was a bad thing? Can anything be more indicative of the incident than that the girl was a seductress and 'wanted' the events to unfold as they did? Polanski is not a stupid man, and he fell for her as she planned. That's why he was so befuddled. In some really twisted, horrid world, the girl raped him. She betrayed him. She knows it, too. So does her mother. If Polanski recognizes anything at all, he recognizes what a fool he was.
Good for you for knowing you could have resisted her, Luther.
"Polanski is not a stupid man, and he fell for her as she planned." That doesn't make sense, sorry. Just because Polanski is a very good writer, an excellent director of movies... doesn't make him immune to the stupid appellation. Idiot savant kind of thing.
As to resisting... talk on my part, Meta. Kinda like wondering if you'll crack in combat. Who knows until the moment is upon you.
"Just because Polanski is a very good writer, an excellent director of movies... doesn't make him immune to the stupid appellation. Idiot savant kind of thing."
Find one word I've said about Polanski's career. Find one. I have not defended him against what he did, and even if I were, I'd not use his career as back-up. It doesn't work.... although for the slut, it worked fine, but I've not used. Saying he is not stupid is rather generic when you get right down to it. He was smart enough to know he'd get the hosing if he returned to the U.S.
Come to think of it, Polanski was stupid. He fell for her plan and the yearnings of his two-inch pecker. I sure wouldn't want that ass being my back-up in battle. I'd much rather have you, Luther, you hot Marine.
Wasn't saying you said anything about Polanski's career. No, you haven't defended him, but you've sure offered scads of reasons why he shouldn't be held at least as culpable as the girl. Well, he smartened up after a while when he saw that the writing was on the wall, so to speak.
I'd always have your six, Meta. And would trust you with mine.
"you've sure offered scads of reasons why he shouldn't be held at least as culpable as the girl." And rightly so, Mr. Black & White hot, smokin', pulsating, throbbing, chest-out, Marine licker of fine adult women.
What is a 'six'?
Stop it, I almost feel a blush coming on, that would be very unbecoming. :)
'Six' is your back. The one you can't see behind. When things would get shitty we'd rest our backs against each other... thus, on a clock, the six and twelve o'clock position. It's normally an aviator term... but grunts used it as well.
"In some really twisted, horrid world, the girl raped him."
What the hell are you smokin Meta?
Rest backs together? And do what? We did that in gym and pushed up and down. Great for abdominals.
Luther. You're sneaky. You'd tell me we had to GO SIX, META! and then throw me down in a trench and allow me to seduce you.
You might get in trouble for that because I'm only a 2nd Lieutenant and you're a first. (Do we care? Nah.... we have great camoflage. )
I bet you'd make me march extra laps after. :}
You're right on the laps... we'd be holding the war up. Oh wait, what war? :)
It's a metaphor. I'm not smoking anything. I'm gliding along in my reptilian brain. Luther does that to me.
Dang. I wonder if I'm a slut.
Luther, would you give me champagne and take me to the hot tub for a little schmoozing? If my asthma flared up, would you breathe into my mouth and calm my cilia, or would you heighten my heart beat to a dangerous level by your soothing words?
All that, Meta. I'd also mesmerize you with metaphor, delight you with dialog, smother you with simile, and finish with sonnets of seduction. Now I have to go sleep, perchance to dream.
Oh my. I must come and play sandslut so you will have safe sleep.