Maggie's Farm

Anon: Since August of this year 90% of all the deaths in Scotland from covid were people who were fully vaccinated.

Citation please.

From January to August 2021, there were zero deaths for those who received the Moderna vaccine. Among those with other vaccines:

age: death rate per 10,000 vaccinated, unvaccinated (ratio)
18-64: 0.8,    3.1   (3.9)
65-79: 4.2,   64.8  (15.4)
80+:  14.0, 420.1  (30.0)

See Grange et al., Characteristics and risk of COVID-19-related death in fully vaccinated people in Scotland, The Lancet, November 2021.

mudbug: https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/12/16/omicron-deception-9-in-10-covid-deaths-since-august-vaccinated/

Thanks. Looking at the underlying data, virtually everyone over 60 is vaccinated. Consequently, 100% of cases among that group would be among those who are vaccinated. In other words, we would expect 100% of COVID fatalities among those over 60 would be vaccinated. How could it be otherwise?

You have to adjust by age cohort and vaccination rate in each cohort to make sense of the data. Of course, your secondary source doesn't want to make sense of the data, but wants to reach a preconceived conclusion.

DrTorch: Of course my post is actually relevant whereas yours was a time frame that he explicitly excluded.

The question arises as to why the results appeared to change after August. The answer is actually found in one of the graphs mudbug cited. As vaccinations rise, especially as vaccination reaches near universality in the most vulnerable population, then the ratio of deaths of those vaccinated compared to those unvaccinated will rise. How could it be otherwise?

mudbug: These Wuhan flu vaccines have likely caused tens of thousands of deaths but for some reason, that's acceptable today.

That number is almost certainly too high. Reported deaths have to be compared to the baseline rate of death in the same, mostly elderly population. Furthermore, COVID has killed 800,000 Americans already.

mudbug: As for knowing long term effects, the mRNA vaccines are the first of their kind used on humans so extrapolating from the experience of other vaccines is useless.

Keep in mind that the vaccine generates a spike protein found in the virus, so any side effects due to this protein would be much, much worse in an actual infection.

mudbug: studies have shown that adverse affects reported to VAERS are vastly under reported. in the range from 1 to 40% being reported

Quite the range. VAERS reporting is much more consistent with COVID, and the number of vaccinations is vastly higher than the historical numbers. Notably, you didn't provide even a simple statistical analysis of the baseline number of deaths expected.

About 1% of people over 80 die in an average month, or about 150,000 a month. We would expect that many to die regardless of vaccination status. We don't see anything that suggests a higher rate of death due to vaccination. We do see a much higher rate of death due to COVID.

mudbug: For most of the first year of the pandemic, the CDC counted every death where the person had Wuhan flu as a Wuhan flu death regardless of other causes

Again, we can look at the baseline death rate. Considering excess deaths in the U.S., different states, different countries, and different time periods, the data clearly supports the COVID death count. When COVID is prevalent, a rise rise in deaths follows. The current COVID death rate in the U.S. is about 1,200 per day.

mudbug: Why would you assume that side effects are only caused by the spike protein and not from the vaccine

There are known risks, as some people have allergies to some of the components of the COVID vaccine, such as polyethylene glycol. People who have such allergies may be able to take a different vaccine.

mudbug: why would you assume that side effects from the generated spike protein would be less than actual infection?

Because the protein due to vaccination is in a much lower concentration, but more important, there aren't viruses with spike proteins taking up residence in your respiratory tract and eating away at your cells.

mudbug: It is quite a range but most estimates for the underreporting are in the 1% area so 40% is quite generous. 20,000 deaths out of 200M vaccinated is 0.01%

So you are saying the purported deaths from COVID vaccination is minuscule compared to deaths due to COVID.

In any case, the problem with your study is that it uses data that isn't necessarily relevant to the current environment. For instance, it cites a 2012 study that about 23% of VAERS reports show a probable link from the vaccine to the adverse event. But reporting is much different now than in 2012. Then it cites a study that cites a study by the same author that cites a report from 2010 which indicates that only 1% of adverse events are reported. There are a number of possible confounding factors. Most adverse events are minor, so are much less likely to be reported, but deaths much more likely to be reported. Also, reporting standards have changed over the last decade, especially in response to the pandemic emergency. Finally, such a large number of deaths would probably have been detected in phase 3 drug trials.

mudbug: I don't know what is in the vaccine

Click on the vaccine product, then scroll down to ingredients:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines.html

mudbug: I also don't know how you can know the concentration of the spike protein.

Cognetti & Miller, Monitoring Serum Spike Protein with Disposable Photonic Biosensors Following SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination, Sensors 2012: "A maximum concentration in SARS-CoV-2 spike protein was detected one day after vaccination and was reduced below detectable levels within 10 days."

Keep in mind that you are much better off having the bare spike protein than having the spike protein as part of a virus invading your respiratory tract and destroying your cells.

mudbug: The evidence is that for some people far more spike proteins are induced than the immune system can handle and they can end up forming blood clots, damaging the heart muscles, and can end up in the brain, ovaries, and other organs.

Sure, but the evidence is that those adverse events are small in number.

Assistant Village Idiot: Polio is particularly good, at 99.9 after the third dose

90% after two doses. If the vaccine works so well, why do you need a booster shot!?