Maggie's Farm

We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.

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Thursday, February 11. 2021

Basic Life Skills

I am back on that topic, which is always a fun and semi-controversial one here at Maggie's. Our list, from the past, includes everything from dining manners to weights to firearms, but we'll try the topic again sometime.


How many knots should a 16 year-old American know how to tie?


Basic knots. 


A good winter activity with kids, besides Monopoly, checkers, and Chess, is practicing the basic knots with eyes closed. Bowline knot is essential, among the others. What are parents for except for things like these?

Posted by The Barrister in The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 15:29 | Comments (24) | Trackbacks (0)

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I don't know about 16 year old kids, but old lady macrame artists will have mastered all of those and then some.
#1 RebeccaH on 2021-02-11 15:42 (Reply)
Those knots look like fun.

I get annoyed when people suggest that basic life skills should be taught in school. I think schools should teach academics. Basic life skills used to be taught at home, and additionally by 4H and Scouting. I realize that not every family includes parents (and grandparents) who are equipped to parent, but we shouldn't default to assuming that all families are dysfunctional and schools have to teach it all.
#2 LP on 2021-02-11 15:43 (Reply)
Knots are a lot of fun, but I would say 4 are probably essential, half hitch, square (sheet bend for extra credit), bowline and trucker's hitch (though I like the alpine butterfly better). Bowline, eventually needs to be done behind the back.
#3 Jonathan Borden on 2021-02-11 16:14 (Reply)
And Bowline needs to be done with one hand while wrapping the loop around your waist. The important thing to teach is why a particular know is good. For example a bowline will hold well but many other knots do too. But a Bowline can undergo extreme pull and still be easily untied and that is it's 'strength'.

A square knot is probably the most common and perhaps the most useful. A variation of the square knot is the surgeon's knot which is a stronger knot than the square knot but is really a great knot for smaller diameter cordage.

A Canadian jam knot is a really useful knot to know and it' s easy to tie and remember.

A water knot and a double fisherman's knot are really useful for when you have two or more short pieces of rope but need one long piece.

My personal favorite knot is a not really a knot but is a Prusik loop. A good knot/loop for securing a tent or a tarp to a peg.

Another good knot to tie off a tent or tarp is the taut line hitch. Works like the Prusik loop in that it can be slid up or down the rope to position it but once under pressure it stays put.
#3.1 OneGuy on 2021-02-11 16:50 (Reply)
I'd caution against tying a simple bowline around your waist, that's a death knot. If it's tight around your waist, and you put your body weight on it, it will slide up to your chest and suffocate you. Don't ask me how I know, I just don't anyone to relive my near-brush experience.
A better, but still not good variant, is a bowline on a bight. One of the loops goes under your seat, the other around your waist, in the small of your back. It's adjustable to fit right, but if your seat loop slips off under load because you stood up, you're suffocated again.
#3.1.1 John A. Fleming on 2021-02-12 01:20 (Reply)
No, if you're going to tie a rope around your waist, do it right. Fashion a swami belt harness that includes leg loops, there are several variants, and tie into it with a figure-eight follow-through.
#3.1.1.1 John A. Fleming on 2021-02-12 01:23 (Reply)
It's called the 'rescue bowline knot. You can see it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJMhWntq_g8&feature=emb_logo

It can be tied by someone who is holding on with one hand. It is the classic rescue knot for first responders. It isn't a 'climbing' knot simply because it is used in situations where it is impossible to tie a good climbing knot. Feel free to decline it if you find yourself offered a rope while stuck on a cliff, I'm sure the rescuers will wait while you decide to try to tie a better knot.
#3.1.1.2 OneGuy on 2021-02-12 09:43 (Reply)
Having four in your arsenal should allow you to handle most situations requiring knots. Which four will depend on where you spend most of your time, and on what activities.
#4 steve walsh on 2021-02-11 16:28 (Reply)
Bowline, Bowline, Bowline......

It should be one of the first knots you learn.
I don't know about behind my back...
#5 Earl Wertheimer on 2021-02-11 16:36 (Reply)
The rabbit comes out of the hole, runs around the tree, and goes back down the hole. That's how they taught it in the Boy Scouts. Besides the ones you mentioned, we also learned the clove hitch, the sheet bend, and the sheep shank.
#5.1 snopercod on 2021-02-11 18:28 (Reply)
The alpine butterfly
#6 Louie Miller on 2021-02-11 17:35 (Reply)
While learning to sail, I could never figure out the knot for tying off....so I always relied on the kindness of strangers....and realizing my limitations, cut short my summer of sailing.
#7 Judith on 2021-02-11 19:10 (Reply)
Basic Life Skills...the topic that got me hooked on Maggie’s and still my favorite.

I’ve been teaching knots to Boy Scouts lately. They’re easy to learn...and easy to forget. Tying them needs to be practiced. And I agree that the uses for each knot need to be learned as well.

The best I’ve learned in the last twenty years is the better bow knot for your shoelace. Simply wrap around your first bow a second time. Won’t come untied until you want it to.
#8 Dougie on 2021-02-11 20:39 (Reply)
All I know is, knots are a perishable skill. If you don't practice your favorites on a regular basis, you will forget how to do them. And then when you need them, you stand there with a rope in your hand and a hole in your head where that knot used to be, and you feel pretty useless.
#9 John A. Fleming on 2021-02-12 01:29 (Reply)
Learning to splice is good too. You can splice a friend's airplane to the ground.
#10 rhhardin on 2021-02-12 06:37 (Reply)
Four-in-hand and Half-Windsor
#11 Another guy named Dan on 2021-02-12 07:29 (Reply)
Heh! Yep. And once in your life, learn how to tie a real bow tie. It's just a fancy square not, after all.
#11.1 Bull (Link) on 2021-02-12 07:50 (Reply)
Knots are useful and fun. That's something I should go over with my boys this weekend while the outside is a frozen tundra for the next 10 days.

But Monopoly is not a good activity for winter or any other time. You should throw that game away. We are living in the Golden Age of board games. There are hundredrs of games in print that are fun, complex, easy to learn, and designed to end within an hour or so.
#12 Jack Walter on 2021-02-12 07:34 (Reply)
Let's see... bowline (to include slippery bowline), trucker's hitch (assumes a slip knot and an overhand with a loop), overhand, sheet bend (kinda free once you know the bowline and better than a square knot), ground line hitch (much better than a clove hitch imho). I think you can do most of what most people need with those. Adding a Prusik knot can be very helpful.

The Zeppelin bend and the Carrick bend are good to know just because they're pretty. And you never know when you may need to guy a Zeppelin or tow a barge without jamming your hitch. Someone above mentioned the alpine butterfly or lineman's loop - often useful.

There was once a time in my Scoutmaster days I could tie a knot for each letter of the alphabet. I need to renew those skills.

Anyway, let's say six knots as a minimum.
#13 Scott on 2021-02-12 11:05 (Reply)
Knot tying has always been a big deal in the Cub Scouts.
It's fun, but complicated.
https://www.slideshare.net/DiaaSarahin/asphyxia-149243673
#14 Ron Liebermann on 2021-02-12 11:43 (Reply)
I can tie only a few: square knot, two-half hitches, whatever you call tying your shoes. I know the sheepshank, the clove hitch, and probably could still manage a bowline from my scouting days but have never used them. I am 67.

My five grown sons don't seem to use many knots. I'll ask, but they seem to be getting along fine.

This idea of "basic" life skills at Maggie's seems tied to recreations and hobbies quite a bit. I know how to correctly paddle a canoe, wax a ski, read a topographic map, build a fire, and bake a loaf of bread, but those are generally optional skills, aren't they?
#15 Assistant Village Idiot on 2021-02-12 13:27 (Reply)
I can do a four-in-hand, a half Windsor, a full Windsor, and a bow-tie. Those four knots get me through most days, although really you only need to know the four-in-hand and bow-tie.
#16 Jim on 2021-02-12 13:54 (Reply)
Back in the day with the Girl Guides, I was a dab hand at knots. But that's a long time ago. Need books for the grandbrats so they can have the fun I did. Anyone with suggestions? I'm in Canada, so may need links.

Thanx.
#17 Frances on 2021-02-12 22:08 (Reply)
The Museum of Everyday Life in Glover, Vermont, picks a theme every year, something in everyday life - as the name implies. The theme changes annually in April/May. The current theme is knots. We visited on New Years Day. It was fascinating!! Photos, commentary, and links here: The Museum of Everyday Life. They even had an exhibit about umbilical cord knots! And, yes, they had knot boards from both Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.
#18 The Switchel Traveler (Link) on 2021-02-13 07:22 (Reply)

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