Doc's Computin' Tips: Windows 7

In the final analysis, there are basically two types of people who use the computer.

On one hand, there are those who use the computer as they do the TV or stereo. They turn it on, they do what they intended to do, they turn it back off. It ultimately doesn't make any difference what version of Windows they're using as long as their favorite programs run.

On the flip side are those who take the whole thing seriously, learning about Windows and its features, as well as programs in general, how to troubleshoot the system when things go awry, and how the various devices hook together inside the tower.

To these people, a change in Windows is a very big deal because it means a large learning curve; not only figuring out the new operating system, itself, but dealing with individual programs and the problems that arise. And arise, they do.

As such, rather than pull my usual routine of hauling out my digital scalpel and slicing things to ribbons, I'm going to direct this review specifically to these two types of people.

To the first group:

Whether you're currently running XP or Vista, you're going to like Win7. It's snappy, quick, good-looking, and isn't bogged down with needless programs like the Sidebar and transparent windows as in Vista. If you're currently a Vista user, all of the usual stuff (Start Menu, Control Panel, etc) looks about the same so you won't have that 'lost' feeling when it first boots up.

The bad news is that Win7 won't 'overinstall' on a current system, so all of your own programs will have to be reinstalled. But as long as you have things like registration numbers written down, it shouldn't be that big a deal. Plus, if you're installing Win7 on a Vista system, the installation will take all of your personal folders and put them in a "windows.old" folder, so you can paw through that if you forgot something.

On the subject, I would recommend you use the True Image backup routine and make a backup of your Vista system first. Then make one of your new Win7 system after it's installed. That way, should you desperately need something from the old system (and chances are you will), you can write the Vista image file to the hard drive, boot up into your old system, recover what you need, then write the Win7 file back to the drive.

The actual installation is very straightforward. There aren't any real choices to make. Selecting the time zone is as tough as it gets.

If you run into an error while installing one of your programs, right-click on the Setup icon and 'Run as administrator'. If it still doesn't install, right-click on the Setup program, open 'Properties', click on the 'Compatibility' tab and set it to 'XP'. If it still doesn't install, reboot the computer and hold down the F8 key about ten seconds into the bootup (before the 'loading Windows' graphic appears). Select 'Safe Mode' and do the 'Run as administrator' bit. If it still doesn't install, the program's probably toast. At that point, go to the program's web site and see if there's a Win7 upgrade, or at least a note about it. You can also do a Google search and see if others are talking about it in the forums.

If you get an error message when running or closing down a program, try setting the main program's Compatibility Mode to 'XP'. If the program works fine otherwise, just ignore the message.

Finally, if there's something you don't like about Win7, like the way it adds that daffy "- Shortcut" to shortcut icons, many of the tweaks on the Vista Tweaks page also work with Win7.

Summation

Again, I'm addressing those who just use the computer for specific tasks (email, browsing), but little more.

Two points to make:

— If you (A) are using an XP system and it's working just fine, or (B) running Vista and (hopefully) did most/some of the Vista Tweaks and everything's just dandy, don't upgrade. It won't gain you a thing, and the potential (especially if upgrading from XP) for some of your fave programs to not run is very real.

— If you're running an old, sluggish XP or a bloated Vista (and the tweaks were over your head, or you did them and they didn't do any good), then, by all means, upgrade. The time, effort, and possibly money if you have to replace a program that won't install, will be worth it to know you won't have to worry about this silly situation again for years.

For the second group (techies, tinkerers, nerds, geeks, societal rejects, social misfits, etc), the story is below the fold.

It isn't pretty.

To the second group:

You will probably HATE this train wreck of an OS. You will kick yourself blind for foolishly wasting your money as you stumble your way through it, constantly wondering where this or that setting is, knowing that you must have missed it. You'll convince yourself that it's there somewhere and will look over the same menus again and again and again.

You'll get on Google and — whoops! — it's a brand new OS and no one knows dick about it. And the things you want to tweak weren't problems in XP and Vista, so no one's discussed them in the past.

And to think — you could have bought that cool (fill in blank), instead! Damn!

I give you about two days before one of two things happens. Either you convince yourself that you can sell the Win7 disc at your next garage sale (so the whole thing won't be a total loss) and you'll switch back to XP or Vista, or you'll give in and simply accept your fate. If you want to adjust some setting in the future and find out you can't, too bad.

But take heart. You'll be able to console yourself because a slimmed-down Windows 7 doesn't use up as much energy as the power-hungry bloated Vista, thereby preventing global warming.

So you'll have that going for you.

The Bad News

I spent a day on the following list. I first (ahem) attempted to do all of my usual system tweaks, then I installed and used different programs, set up the anti-virus/spyware and firewall programs and got online, downloaded and uploaded files, went to the farthest left-wing blog sites out there and left horrible, scathing comments signed "Bird Dog" everywhere I went, edited a web site, did a video project, and basically just used the rig as I normally do.

Brace yourself:

The Start Menu can't be changed. The 'classic' entry on the Start Menu Options is history. That means, rather than quickly running the pointer out to a folder within a folder within a folder, you have to merrily click-click-click your way to the folder. Then you have to click-click-click to get back to the top of the menu so you can choose another program. It's so abysmal that this, alone, would keep me from using this putrid, disgusting abomination of an operating system.

(And they said my reviews weren't objective. Hah!)

You'll also have to get used to the large entries on the Start Menu. The "use small icons" option is no more.

Worse, every time you use a program, Win7 is going to put its icon on the main part of the Start Menu, so things are constantly shifting around, which means you have to hunt for each entry, rather than knowing right where they are.

Windows Search, as a program, is history. The only thing you're given is the little search box at the bottom of the Start Menu and at the top of windows. From there you can do an 'advanced search' and most of the old Vista Search pops up, but then you'll probably have to expand the window just so you can see the options. What they gained by eliminating Search's own window is anybody's guess.

You can't disable the Quick Launch tool bar if you don't use it. You have to manually right-click on each icon to get rid of them, and you'll have to do it every time a new program puts an icon there.

Folders are now "programs". As in, should you leave a couple of windows open and attempt to shut down, a great big full-screen message pops up that warns you "2 programs are still running!" Thankfully, it closes after a few seconds, but it's still stupid.

You know how 'Auto Arrange' keeps a window's icons neat and alphabetized? It's gone.

Similarly, I always liked "Align to Grid" as it kept the icons from doing that ugly stretching thing (in Vista) when changing the size of a window. The option is kaput.

You can't turn off Hibernate, which means you'll be dragging along a gigantic 3-gig file for no reason, doubling the time it takes to make a backup image file, whether using a program like True Image or the Windows backup program. And you can't just delete the file because it's "in use". Thankfully, you can turn it off (and get rid of the big file) using the method on the Vista Tweaks page.

You can't adjust individual system colors anymore, like the 'selected' color and the color of the window frames. All you get are the 'Themes'. Pay attention because there'll be a test. I'm going to touch on this particular item down below. As simple as it is, do you see any underlying significance?

Be forewarned; not all of your programs that installed on Vista will install on Win7. My fairly recent edition of ZoneAlarm (firewall) wouldn't install, and Norton SystemWorks 2009 (!) has "known compatibility issues". And even though I have Admin privileges as a user, Norton Anti-virus wouldn't install unless I did a "Run as administrator" on the Setup icon.

Under the heading, "It's small, but they all add up,", add to the list the fact that you don't have separate Input and Output volume controls anymore, and can't change the 'color depth' of the monitor.

And a whole shitload of stock Windows programs are history. Possibly the finest Windows tool they ever came out with, Movie Maker, is no more. Probably half the videos on YouTube were made with Movie Maker. Imagine the surprise of budding young videophiles opening up their new Windows 7 and discovering they now have to shell out $259 for a commercial video editing studio. And there are lots of little things missing in the various 'Accessories' folders. This, on the $320 'Ultimate' edition.

What a disgrace.

And no, for the record, I didn't cough up $320 for this post. I signed on to beta-test Win7 last summer, then latched onto a commercial version (unactivated) after it was officially released so I could see what the difference was. My one forlorn hope was that the 'Ultimate' version would contain the lost programs and settings. What else, after all, does the word 'ultimate' mean?

Oh, I forgot one:

There's no email program.

Yes, you read that right. Almost ten years into the second millennium and the newest operating system in the galaxy doesn't contain a simple email program, something that's been around for two decades? Outlook Express (now renamed 'Windows Mail' in Vista), one of Windows' crown jewels and a program that outperforms the vaunted ($$) program 'Outlook', is gone.

Hey, you said you wanted to get rid of the bloatware, right?

The Good News

Now, all of this isn't to say that Windows 7 is totally worthless. I'm sure there are a number of very positive enhancements to it, which I'll start listing below as I come across them:

1. Now has 'Repair' feature on Safe Mode boot-up menu

2.

3.

4.

5.

So it's got those items going for it!

It's pretty clear that Microsoft has taken two messages to heart:

1. Quit trying to add cool features like transparent windows and the Sidebar because the whiny vocal minority will start screaming about "bloatware" and such.

2. Quit treating the users like they know what they're doing. The fewer options they have, the less trouble they'll get into.

Large corporations are amazingly like politicians, aren't they? You constantly get the feeling you're being herded along like sheep.

And what kind of information is the public getting?

I have read a dozen Win7 reviews and watched two videos, and every single one of them pushed the same two memes:

1. Vista is bad because it's bloated. Of course, by "bloated" they mean "a whole bunch of perhaps vital, necessary programs running in the background that other, more worthless piece-of-shit operating systems don't offer" is beside the point. What they never mention is... you can turn off the bloatware! Do that, and Vista is a quick, snappy, stable operating system.

2. Windows 7 is the operating system you've been waiting for. Quick, functional, basic — no frills or snags to bog it down. If you like simple, you'll love Windows 7! Of course, what none of the articles or videos mentioned about Windows 7 was everything I listed up above.

Summation

I didn't exaggerate or mislead anybody in the first part of this post. It is a basic, stable operating system, and for casual users with bloated systems, it'll be perfect. And, outside of a few hitches, it took everything I threw at it (big complicated video editing studios, audio editors, web editors, desktop publishing tools, etc) and never peeped a complaint. Or perhaps they've removed the error messages as well.

While the full version of 'Ultimate' costs $320 at Office Depot, the 'Home' upgrade disc is only 120 clams, so it isn't particularly a wallet-buster if you want to give it a shot. Just remember the golden rule:

No complaining about it afterward.

That ends the official part of the post. Following is some related commentary in case you're really bored at work today.

— Since email programs are considered 'tools', like a browser, and aren't included in the 'bloatware' department, it's a real puzzle why they removed Outlook Express aka Windows Mail. My only guess is that they're pushing their online email site, MSN. Nor do all of the common freebie replacement email programs (Thunderbird, Eudora, etc) import Outlook Express/Windows Mail files (assuming you want to save your old mail), so you might end up having to dig up a program that'll convert the database files to some 'universal' format, like UNIX, then import that into your new email program. It'll be way too much for most people and a great part of their lives will be lost. For many, email archives are the modern-day version of keeping a scrapbook.

Allow me to be the first to label the removal of their email program a debacle of the highest order.

— The techies who wrote so glowingly of Win7 (yet accidentally forgot to mention everything I listed up above) are really going to be in a bind. On one hand, they'll have to pretend to their readers that everything's just peachy and they're just a-lovin' their new Win7 system — while secretly they'll be reacting just as I did as they discover to their horror that option after option is missing.

A techie who can't tweak his own system?

Now that's funny.

— While I'm positive that this is just a silly illusion on my part, consider an interesting thought:

Do you know what the "MS" in "MSNBC" stands for?

MicroSoft.

Now, if we extrapolate MSNBC's left-wing agenda and figure Microsoft is in the same bag (as evidenced by their pandering to the green crowd — did you notice all the green bars in Vista? Think that's a coincidence?), then we note how they removed one of the few things that made a person's system stand out — changing the colors of the window frames and 'selected' color, thus individualizing the system. We note how neatly it's removal fits into the left-wing agenda of conformity. In the world of the future, all people will dress the same, and get the same pay, and have identical computer operating systems.

But I'm sure I'm reading too much into it.

— By the way, in case you were wondering, the reason it's called "Windows 7" is because it's the seventh version of Windows. And here's the list now:

1. Windows 3.1
2. Windows 95
3. Windows NT
4. Windows 98
5. Windows 98SE
6. Windows 2000
7. Windows Millennium
8. Windows XP
9. Windows Vista

Okay, so it was close to the seventh version.

The odd thing is, I can see them not counting Windows 3.1 and 98SE — but what other one are they not counting? By all rights, this should have been "Windows 8", and even that's a horseshit name. On the other hand, at least it beats "Panther", "Leopard", "Cheetah", "Velociraptor", "Hog's Breath", "Snake Eyes", and the rest of those goofy Mac names.

Update: A commenter points out that it's the seventh 'Home' version of Windows (Windows NT and 2000 were commercial and Win98SE doesn't count), so there's the answer.

— I sent a copy of this article to my buddy RadioHowie for vetting before I posted it. He sent back a single sentence:

"Remind me never to install Windows 7."

Amen, brudder.

Posted by Dr. Mercury in Dr. Mercury's Computer Corner, Our Essays at 10:00 | Comments (43) | Trackbacks (0)

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Mornin' Merc,

I'll take Radiohowie's advice, seeing I'm a tinkerer and all. I shall read the post, for educational purposes, though, when I return.

Very informative , as always.

Thanks!

#1 Garry on 2009-11-02 10:12 (Reply)

Amen, brudder. I'll tell RadioHowie you approve of his contrite summation. I was honestly kind of shocked about two things:

- While I'd been forewarned that Win7 had 'slimmed down', I had no idea as to the extent. One of the reviews mentioned that Movie Maker was history, but, in my naivete, thought he had reviewed one of the lesser editions, or perhaps the beta. To pop open the (delicate cough) "Ultimate" edition and see how much was removed was pretty disappointing.

- I was also surprised at how little had changed since the beta version I downloaded last summer. A new Windows background image and, uh, that's about it.

"I shall read the post, for educational purposes"

Eat something first, just to settle your stomach. :)

#1.1 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-02 10:24 (Reply)

Merc,

I'll take the Dr's advice and have a sandwich first!

Let me ask you this...I've watched MS come out with (what I feel) are rather quick updates/additional OS's in a rather short period of time. (I know the turnover time is marked in weeks as new programs, etc come online).

Are they:

1/ responding to market changes?
2/ attempting to align their OS's with the competition (Mac,
etc)?
3/ are they trying to cut down costs by eliminating elements
that not all use, thereby creating a revenue generating
"option" that must be purchased by those who
want/need it? or
4/ just what the h*ll are they doing?

You have dragged this "analog operating platform" into a more comfortable understanding of this wonderful device (known as a 'confuser') and explained it it terms that I can understand. And, for that my friend, I'm grateful. I have also seen your knowledge laden explanations for those who understand at your level (as opposed to the tinkers like me). If you express "Why is it like this" and are finding these little "problems", I know that I would never have a chance to go forth and learn on my own.

Your thoughts Sir!

Cheers.

#1.1.1 Garry on 2009-11-02 11:18 (Reply)

My plan, for when modern browsers no longer work on XP, is ubuntu.

I run XP as a linux system under cywin anyway, but with drivers and apps that actually exist.

#2 rhhardin (Link) on 2009-11-02 10:54 (Reply)

RHH - I've heard some nice things about Ubuntu. Someone on some blog was raving about all of the 'themes' and such that have come for it recently. I suppose it's a snowball effect -- more people using it means more people writing support files for it, which, in turn, brings more people in.

But as far as your comment about browsers not working on XP goes, Vista isn't a "bad" operating system. Granted, it doesn't have all the options that XP had, but it's nothing like what they did in Win7. And did you see the length of the Vista Tweaks page? If one does everything on the page, the OS isn't even close to what came out of the box. So I wouldn't rule it completely out.

#2.1 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-02 11:29 (Reply)

I meant it more in the spirit of just not being able to read web pages because they'd evolved beyond what (then) old XP-compatible browsers could handle..

That's what drove me to XP from Win95. No browsers&plug-ins for win95 any longer.

Ubuntu is fine, it's dual boot on one of my machines; but I use it only as a traditional unix programming system, no browsing or anything.

I assume the browers though will be modern enough to handle whatever makes XP fail finally.

#2.1.1 rhhardin (Link) on 2009-11-02 14:08 (Reply)

RHH - I can relate. I hate new OS's with a passion, and you always lose some pet program (or version) in the changeover. I'd still be using Win98SE if it weren't for the fact that, oh, about 90% of my video tools won't run on it. Hell, I can't even install it on my Compaq. It'll install, but the system never boots up, possibly because of my LCD monitor.

"But gosh, Doc, how would you know that?"

I, uh, tried. :)

"whatever makes XP fail finally."

That's an interesting thought. I suppose MSoft removing it from their Updates is what makes it 'official'. As I recall, there was such a clamor about Vista that they pushed their XP updates back a year.

#2.1.1.1 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-02 14:40 (Reply)

Microsoft used to consider "home" and "business" uses pretty much separate things. While Win 3.1 was DOS, it was the beginning of Microsoft's home product as we know it. SE was not a complete new OS (although you could argue that the first itereation of 98 was simply a 95 upgrade, and SE was the new OS) but they were being developed and had quite a different kernel than the NT line. 2000 started to lean toward the consolidation of the "home" user product and the "business" client product, but they were still different and should not be included in the Windows count. So you have:

1)Windows 3.1
2) Windows 95
3) Windows 98/SE
4) Windows ME
5) Windows XP
6 Windows Vista

At least, I think that is probably what they are thinking.

#3 Jim on 2009-11-02 11:45 (Reply)

I found your review to be extremely bitter and unhelpful. While you outlined very specifically what you didn't like about Windows 7 and your frustrations with understanding how it worked, you missed a lot of very real changes that will make things easier for basic users and made mistakes on some very key things. For example:

1) Windows Movie Maker is NOT gone. You have to download it separately from MS website, it is still free and the download took me less than 2 mins on a 1Mbps Internet connection.

2) Disabling security messags is still available, its now called "change how windows alerts me about issues" and you have a slider that goes from "alert me on all changes" to "never alert me"

3) Seriously, who uses Outlook Express? There are many free e-mail clients, such as Thunderbird, that are just as light weight and function similarly. Most people who would use OE now use Gmail, Google Calendar, or other web-based solutions. MS themselves have mentioned many times their intention to compete with Google Apps. Who knows what we'll see in that arena now that OE is gone.

4) "Folders are Programs" - This is NICE. It means when explorer crashes because you accidentally hit the eject button on your CD while you were browsing it, you can end the folder and not be staring at the iconless background that is your desktop. It isolates the crash to that folder and doesn't corrupt the other dozen programs that you have cluttering up your desktop.

5) XP Compatibility - Your program from 1994 no longer works in WIndows 7. Perhaps you should use a new program? You don't want to? that's fine. XP Compatibility mode is not just a setting. You get a full running copy of Windows XP in a VM that comes free with your install of Windows 7. You download it from the MS website and you can run anything in it that you would run in Windows XP. I have KVM software that will only run in that environment because it is old and the manufacturer does not exist anymore. It is not an emulator, it is not a resource hog, it "hibernates" when you aren't using it and gives you full control over how it is configured and access to your local hard disk to easily move files back and forth.

I've been using the full-release of Windows 7 Ultimate for the past 4 weeks. For the last two years I've been using various red-hat based distros (Fedora/Cent) as my primary OS. I'm an IT administrator for a small company and we've started rolling 7 out to our users as it has been easier for the less-computer savvy staff to understand and operate.

Oh, and the Home User releases of windows are:
1) 3.1
2) 95
2) 98
3) 98se
4) ME
5) XP
6) Vista
7) Windows 7

NT was corporate only.
2000 was corporate only, they did NOT release it for retail locations.

#4 hobbes80 on 2009-11-02 12:10 (Reply)

I mis-typed, 98 and 98se were supposed to be 1 release.

#4.1 hobbes80 on 2009-11-02 12:14 (Reply)

Gar of the Frozen Hinterland -

"I'll take the Dr's advice and have a sandwich first!"

I admit I hesitated before offering the advice. On one hand, it's best your stomach be settled before the churning that was sure to come. On the other hand, a full stomach would make such a mess of the keyboard if you lost it.

We'll just have to hope for the best.

"I've watched MS come out with (what I feel) are rather quick updates/additional OS's in a rather short period of time."

Updates and OS's are two wildly different things. As far as their updates go, that's responding to outside attacks, like viruses and worms. If everybody played nice, they'd probably come out with two updates a year.

As far as operating system go, it had been seven years since the previous OS when Vista came out, and was considered long overdue. So they're not just rushing them out the door.

Win7, however, was clearly responding to market pressure, brought on by a whiny vocal minority that started bitching about Vista being "bloatware" -- the dirtiest word a techie can use for either an OS or a program. But someone like myself views those kinds of people as dilettantes. It was double-obvious in the reviews that none of them even tried to clean Vista up. They fired up their Vista systems, saw System Restore and Windows Indexing and Disk Defragmenter and all the rest running in the background and immediately labeled it "bloatware".

On the other hand, as I noted down in the commentary, those so-called 'experts' are now going to reap what bullshit they have sown, and having to use Win7 will be their own personal hell for their not actually acting like experts. Very fitting, IMHO.

"2/ attempting to align their OS's with the competition (Mac, etc)?"

Yes. Consider the irony:

- There is no such thing as a "Mac computer" anymore. A few years ago, Apple ditched their entire hardware platform and started using the same Intel-based machine that Windows, Linux, etc, all use. These days, "Mac" is nothing more than an operating system.

- With each new OS since WinME, Microsoft has reduced the number of user options. Going from ME to XP hurt, going from XP to Vista really hurt, and it all culminates in Windows 7 where the term "user configurability" has almost disappeared. They're "going Apple", to coin a phrase. It's hard to put a figure on, but I'd guess that Windows, counting things like the Services, is twenty times more configurable than a Mac. In this regard, first Apples, then Macs, have always been somewhat untweakable.

In other words, over the past few years, Macs have become more like Windows, and Windows have become more like Macs.

Now you take my MSNBC --> Microsoft comment, and figure that Apple is even further left-wing, and the fact that both systems are becoming more like the other just fits into the leftist dream of universal conformity.

But, again, I'm sure I'm reading too much into it. :)

"3/ are they trying to cut down costs by eliminating elements that not all use, thereby creating a revenue generating "option" that must be purchased by those who want/need it?"

An interesting thought, but I'd have to figure not -- and for two reasons. First, we'd be hearing about 'upgrade packages' by now, and two, MSoft would get raked over the coals as "mercenaries' if they tried to pull such a stunt. Especially if the "upgrade" contained the programs they'd just taken out, like email, Movie Maker, etc.

"4/ just what the h*ll are they doing?"

"Kowtowing". "Placating". "Pandering". Whatever word means all three.

"You have dragged this 'analog operating platform' into a-"

Yes, but audiophiles still maintain that analog systems are better than digital.

So you've got that working on your behalf. :)

#5 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-02 12:22 (Reply)

QUOTE:

Win7, however, was clearly responding to market pressure, brought on by a whiny vocal minority that started bitching about Vista being "bloatware"

I disagree, I believe Vista was rushed out to market because users were clamoring for an updated OS with all the pretty features of the Apple OSs.

Everyone can agree, that ME was a rushed version of what XP was supposed to be. MS was attempting to bring the retail world to the kernel that was being run on the Win2000 platform, which was far more stable (hence, business release) than 98. They rushed ME to market with an XP skinned version of 98 and it bombed horribly. Luckily, XP was fairly quick to come to market as MS wasn't too far from being able to release it.

If you look at the history of how long MS has been working on what is now called 7, you'll see that there are a bunch of acronyms dating back to before vista was released, such as longhorn, vienna, etc... What this demonstrates is another ME scenario.

MS wanted to release this new OS with all the updated coding goodies they've been working on because of marketing pressure to update the 7 year old XP OS, but it wasn't finished. So Vista was released and the reaction was as bad as can be expected for an unpolished operating system. The controls put in to act as a stop-gap between what they wanted, and was needed created the "bloat" and "buggy" problems that everyone has been bemoaning since it was released.

I'm not saying that Windows 7 has removed and fixed all of these problems from Vista, but I AM saying that the measures put in to compromise on those complaints easily make up for the failure of Vista. Add in to that the capabilities of the new kernel and capabilities of Win7, you end up with a significantly more robust system that will be a much better platform to build the next gen of computing on top of.

I'm far from being a MS guy. Like I said in a previous post, I've been a Linux Desktop guy for the last 2 years. I'm coming back to Windows because I believe they finally have a quality kernel to run apps on top of. All the rest of the crap is just window dressing.

#5.1 hobbes80 on 2009-11-02 12:45 (Reply)

That "Start Menu" business - well, I haven't used the silly thing for years, since every installed program insisted on building a folder in there with no organization. I am running XP, and long ago built a folder (with, yes, subfolders) with shortcuts to stuff I use. Yes, I could modify the Start Folder directly - and have, before this method - but it was just silly.

Related - all stuff in the "menu" being listed, having to repeatedly scan down... This is the main reason I still use IE as my primary browser - bookmark handling. Firefox, Chrome, etc take all the entries in Bookmarks and sort alphabetically: big whoop. In IE, I have some 2600 bookmarks, split into some 70 folders within folders within... six clicks take me from reading your blog to paying bills to watching out-of-copyright movies in IE, even if the names are, say, M - B - W according to other browsers: FF and Cr make me wade through literally hundreds of screens to do this. Bah! I am apalled that MS seems to think this is the way to go, and fear it coming to IE.

#6 John A on 2009-11-02 12:41 (Reply)

QUOTE:

That "Start Menu" business - well, I haven't used the silly thing for years, since every installed program insisted on building a folder in there with no organization.

Agreed. In 7, if you hit the window key and type the program you want, it pops to the top, then you run it.
done. finished. period. no more stupid trying to find stuff in pop-out windows, which I used to spend hours trying to organize so that when I wanted to use wireshark i could find it under programs>internet>tools>wireshark>blah... now i hit the window key and type "shark" and it pops on top.
Done. Call me stupid, but that sounds better.
Not to mention, when a user calls me on the phone and they can't figure out how to do something, Window key, type it. There it is.

#6.1 hobbes80 on 2009-11-02 12:49 (Reply)

Got to know these Microsoft guys well in SEA--changed to Apple. Thanks, but NO THANKS.

#7 another one on 2009-11-02 13:21 (Reply)

Hobbes -

"I found your review to be extremely bitter and unhelpful."

"Bitter" seems like an odd word to pick. I think "disappointed" pretty much covers it. And as far as "unhelpful" goes, what about the first part of the post? I tried to give people a benchmark that they could understand. If everything's running just fine, don't touch a thing. If it's a POS, upgrade. That's a lot more 'helpful' than just telling everybody "You gotta upgrade just cuz!", like all the reviews do.

"you missed a lot of very real changes that will make things easier for basic users"

No offense, but it doesn't seem quite fair to condemn me for not singing its praises when you listed out none, yourself.

"and made mistakes on some very key things."

Prepare to be dickered with. :)

"1) Windows Movie Maker is NOT gone. You have to download it separately"

If it has to be downloaded, then it's "gone" from the OS. And besides, you'd still have to hear from somebody that it's available for download, right? Most people would probably see it's missing, go "Oh well!" and figure out what to do next. The more industrious ones will head to a forum and ask, but many users will be left in the dark.

"2) Disabling security messags is still available"

Ya know, I looked at that, but the impression I got was that ALL system messages would stop. I just want it to shut up about Windows Firewall not being on and Automatic Downloads being set to 'manual'. I still want to see every other message the system offers up.

"3) Seriously, who uses Outlook Express?"

People who:

1. Want to keep their email safely on their own computer

2. Want all the features (backdrops, tables, background audio files, etc) that a real program offers over the online stuff

3. Want multiple identies.

"There are many free e-mail clients, such as Thunderbird, that are just as light weight and function similarly."

Not (true) multiple identities. I did a whole post on it here.

"4) "Folders are Programs" - This is NICE."

Not when you're shutting down the machine and it's hollering at you that you've (gasp!) still got two folders open! Oh, the horror!

"5) XP Compatibility - Your program from 1994 no longer works in WIndows 7. Perhaps you should use a new program?"

Perhaps there isn't one? Or one that works as well? Or the upgrade is expensive?

"You get a full running copy of Windows XP in a VM that comes free with your install of Windows 7."

Really? I'll have to pursue that. I've got a handful of programs that won't run on Vista, so it'll be interesting to see if the above handles them. If it does, I'd put it in the "very impressive" category.

"Oh, and the Home User releases of windows are:"

Ah, I bet that's it. If you strike NT and 2K from the list, and they probably don't count 98SE as a 'real' OS, then it's #7. STILL a stoopit name, tho'.

"2000 was corporate only, they did NOT release it for retail locations."

I can't remember the stats, but it's surprising how many companies are still using 2K. I ran it for a year and liked it, but I was always partial to the 95/98/ME line and the extra bells & whistles it offered.

(ding!)

(speaking of which, email bell goes off)

Chapter 2:

"I disagree, I believe Vista was rushed out to market"

Seven years is "rushed out to market"?

I understand what you mean (in the sense that Win7 wasn't ready yet), but it's still a strange statement. And I think you're being much too hard on Vista. I now have some 60-odd programs installed on this thing, including Adobe Photoshop, Premiere, After Effects, and some gigantic video studios, and everything's just hunky-dory. I don't analyze systems, I just use them and report back.

(ding!)

Chapter 3:

"if you hit the window key and type the program"

(cough!)

Type in the program? You mean, by hand, rather than just gracefully sliding the pointer over to Programs/Tools/Wireshark?

You're going to call this a "technological advancement", right? :)

Besides, we're talking about Win7 improvements here, and Vista does the same thing. Type in the name and the icon appears. Hit the Enter key and the program pops up.

"which I used to spend hours trying to organize so that-"

"Minutes". You get to the personal Startup folder via the Start Menu icon and RMB. Inside of that you have a shortcut icon to the 'All Users' Startup folder. One opens on the bottom-left of the screen and the other on the bottom-right. The newly-installed program folder will be in one of them (if not both).

Across the top of the screen is the window that opens up via the Start Menu icon, with an "Audio" folder", "Games", "Graphics", "Net", "Tools", etc.

You open the newly-installed program's folder and d-r-a-g the icon to the proper folder up above and drop it in. You then delete the unnecessary program folder. Just takes a minute.

And thanks for the interesting feedback. I'll look into that XP/VM thing.

Doc

#8 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-02 13:27 (Reply)

Thanks for the reply.

Here is a link to "XP Mode"
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx

2000 was a very strong OS, I can see why many people are still on it, and why many used it as their desktop when it wasn't officially a "retail release".

When I say "rushed" my intention was to say that Vista was an early release of what they were looking for. In all fairness, and full disclosure, I have not run Vista as my OS, I have only run it in the virtual environment. My biggest complaints were Vista were less with the flash-pan effects and "extra" features that many dub as bloat, but more in that it was half-patched code. I didn't truly appreciate this until installing Server2008. The best example I can demonstrate is the TCP stack.

Since as far back as I can remember (Dos 6.22?) the MS networking stack has been bugged at best. The big issue was that the MS TCP stack couldn't adjust window sizes to optimize traffic across big pipes. On Server 2003, it would take me 10-12 minutes to push 1GB from one location to the other. on Server 2008, that same file would push in 1 minute, 12 seconds, not insignificant.

Vista has the old stack, as far as I can tell as I received the same performance on my Vista test machine as i did on my XP and on my Server2003 machine.

So where I was coming from was that MS intended, from what I could gather, to release all these components as part of its next gen OS, which was Vista. However, they couldn't make all of them work properly, so they bundled what they could get to work from the old code, with what they had working with the new code, and sent it out.

Which is why I called it "rushed" when they obviously spent a lot of time on it.

I apologize about the bitter and unhelpful part. I suppose my epeen was a bit hurt since I obviously kind of like the new OS.

I've been recommending to my friends who have XP machines to only upgrade if they are having issues, because a fork-lift upgrade is more than most people can handle. But my friends who are buying new PCs? I tell them to go ahead and get Win7 as the platform is closer being finished than I've seen in a while, and if you start off with something stable, at least you can build on it.

#8.1 hobbes80 on 2009-11-02 14:03 (Reply)

Thanks for the review Doc. I've been mulling the whole switch to 7 myself on 2 machines. One is a B'Day present for my daughter which has Vista (That I tweaked a bit) it came with a free 7 upgrade.

The second is my Vista laptop, which is running flawlessly and quick already.

I have a quick question if you could clarify:

You mentioned that all software would need to be reinstalled after an upgrade. Is this true for Vista as well? I ran the Win 7 upgrade advisor from MS and the only app that it flagged as uninstall/reinstall was iTunes. Are you saying that reinstalling everything (Office, Picassa, all apps utilities firewalls, AV, etc) needs to be reinstalled after a Vista to 7 Upgrade? That could be a game changer for me.

I guess I'll have to pop over to BestBuy and play with one to see what's under the hood before deciding on my upgrade. My daughters is a no brainer. She's a typical College grad. Web, iTunes, Photos, etc. I think she'll want it, it's the new "hip" Windows.

Thanks again.
Mike

#9 Mike in New Hampshire (Link) on 2009-11-02 13:52 (Reply)

Mike from New Hampshire -

Hey, bud. Nice to hear from you. Say, as long as you're here, show everybody how 'New Hampshire' is really pronounced.

"Na'ampshah!"

Perfect. :)

"The second is my Vista laptop, which is running flawlessly and quick already."

Actually, I meant to touch on that in the post. One thing that's admittedly true, simply because of the scaled-down size, is that Win7 works a little better on laptops, just because they're usually not as powerful as a desktop rig. But as long as it's running fine, computers are just like plumbing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

"I have a quick question if you could clarify:"

Yes, Vista will 'overinstall' on an XP system, no, Win7 won't. It's just like it formatted the drive first. If installing via the Desktop, it'll make a 'windows.old' folder and stuff everything it doesn't recognize into it. If installing via boot-up disc, it won't.

Remember, we're on new ground here. In the past, with every operating system ever released by any company, the direction was always more. More features, more speed, more robust. In Win7, though, with the slash-and-burn technique they used, we're going the other direction, and the Win7 installation program is going to be clueless as to what stays and what goes, hence the only solution is to wipe the slate clean and start over.

"I ran the Win 7 upgrade advisor from MS and the only app that it flagged as uninstall/reinstall was iTunes."

That's a compatibility check; that is, whether or not it'll install and run on Win7. And I'd take anything it said with a grain of salt. As noted in the post, Norton SystemWorks had an 'incompatibility' issue, yet it installed and runs just fine.

"I think she'll want it, it's the new 'hip' Windows."

Uh-yup. Or, maybe more to the point, Vista is un-hip. If she told her friends she was running Windows 95, they'd probably swoon with envy.

"Retro, man!"

"Awesome!"

"Where can I get one?"

#10 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-02 14:29 (Reply)

Thanks for the reply, Do.

"Na'ampshah!"

I might have to rename my blog ;)

"Yes, Vista will 'overinstall' on an XP system, no, Win7 won't."

Well that's that. I'll wait 'till it's new machine time and worry about it then. This laptop is 2 years old, but it hums along nicely as I mentioned. Maybe next year.

"Retro, man!"
"Awesome!"
"Where can I get one?"

Or, you could really wow the cool kids on your PC. http://www.linuxbeacon.com/doku.php?id=minivmac

Take care

#10.1 Mike in New Hampshire (Link) on 2009-11-02 15:23 (Reply)

Mike from-, oh, you know the drill --

"I might have to rename my blog ;)"

Now that was funny. It's true, folks. If you're going to New Hampshire, bring along a translation device. I like the Texas Instruments XB-1700. Tell them speak slowly and distinctly.

"Aye 'afta' g'down t' t'mall fo' som' peetzar."

"BEEP!"

"I have to go down to the mall for some pizza."

Modern electronics, bringing people together.

"This laptop is 2 years old, but it hums along nicely as I mentioned. Maybe next year."

Just remember, when you hear people talking about it and see it mentioned on the web, and find yourself weakening...

...that if you buy it 'just cuz', you'll be buying it for the same reason your daughter did.

Hopefully, that's a scary enough though to last you a year. :)

#10.1.1 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-02 15:40 (Reply)

Hobbes -

"Here is a link to 'XP Mode'"

Thankee kindly. FWIW, I'm not sure if 'Compatibility Mode' ever worked for anything in XP, but it sure as shit works in Vista. I've got three games that freeze when they hit full-screen mode, but not with XP Compatibility turned on. And I was getting error messages when opening or closing a few that disappeared with XP Mode on. With a few others, it makes no dif and the error box pops up when they're closed down. But they work fine.

"and full disclosure, I have not run Vista as my OS"

I had that feeling. You were analyzing it, but the 'real-life' aspect was missing from your words. Do me a quick favor and just look at the length of this page. Now, honestly, how many of those "experts" out there bemoaning Vista did most of what's on that page? Zero would be a good guess.

"but more in that it was half-patched code. I didn't truly appreciate this until installing Server2008. The best example I can demonstrate is the TCP stack."

Did you just compare a home operating system to server software?

Cheater. :/

"that same file would push in 1 minute, 12 seconds, not insignificant."

Not insignificant at all, cheater. Speaking of which (operating systems, that is, not your cheating), one thing I'll have to hand Vista is that they sure as shit tweaked the drive ports correctly. Copying from one SATA drive to another, I'm getting twice the rate. On XP, it'd take about a minute a gig to copy. I can now copy 4 gigs (a standard DVD) in 2 minutes.

With drive-intensive programs, like video frameserving or remuxing, it cut even more time off. What used to take about 4 1/2 minutes in DVD2One now takes about a minute and a half. Would you happen to have a technical explanation for what they did?

"Which is why I called it 'rushed' when they obviously spent a lot of time on it."

I understood. IMHO, MSoft deserves whatever bad things happen to it, including the Vista debacle and nasty, bitter posts about Win7 such as this one. When you've got seven years to upgrade an OS and can't, well, that's pretty pathetic.

"I apologize about the bitter and unhelpful part. I suppose my epeen was a bit hurt since I obviously kind of like the new OS."

Apology accepted. And you're right; I didn't give Win7 a fair shake, in the sense that I didn't purposefully pursue its attributes, but I figure people will get that from the Web and TV. This post was a counterbalance to all the 'glowiing' reviews it was getting out there -- and especially because they were so lopsided. I just hate that. Being a 'counterbalance', it was lopsided in the other direction.

"And how!"

Thanks. :)

"because a fork-lift upgrade is more than most people can handle."

Jeez, you really do go back, don't you? I haven't heard that expression in 20 years.

"But my friends who are buying new PCs? I tell them to go ahead and get Win7"

The next question is, will they be 32-bit or 64-bit machines? I read some gruesome article a while back pointing out how many problems the 64-bit machines are going to pose, both with software and drivers. You have any thoughts on that?

#11 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-02 15:20 (Reply)

"Did you just compare a home operating system to server software?
Cheater. :/"

heh, yeah, kinda. though I've seen the same change in transfer performance going to win7 from XP that I saw going to 2008 server from 2003 with regards to packet framing, was drawing my own similes.

"one thing I'll have to hand Vista is that they sure as shit tweaked the drive ports correctly. Copying from one SATA drive to another, I'm getting twice the rate"

One thing I've learned from working with massive amounts of storage for the past few years (I work for a online, offsite backup recover company), is that we the technical community did not understand how to utilize SATA disks appropriately when the technology first became available.

I'm sure you know the same as anyone, that SATAs perform well in contiguous reads/writes. That's where they shine. In random reads/writes, they slow down significantly due to the S part of SATA. Serial drives can do one thing at a time, per rotation. So they are not efficient at finding something that they have to gather pieces for, or write pieces of.

One feature I really admired of Vista, and almost made me install it as my desktop, was the ability to install flash memory in a card slot and actively specify it as a paging location so that you could improve the performance of paged memory. Giving you RAM-Like speeds for paged out memory.

My best guess, is that using this same idea, Vista used existing memory to organize its "thoughts" if you will, before writing them to the disk as to maintain a more contiguous writing of the disk.

The second possibility is GPT disks. GPT is a different type of partitioning table for disks that allows for greater indexing of the stored data. You can learn a lot about it here:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/GPT_FAQ.mspx

Vista was the first consumer OS that supported GPT disks natively as not only a data disk, but as a boot disk. Because of its extended partition tables, GPT is able to prevent fragmentation more easily and will more intelligently layout data on the disk.

"The next question is, will they be 32-bit or 64-bit machines? I read some gruesome article a while back pointing out how many problems the 64-bit machines are going to pose, both with software and drivers. You have any thoughts on that?"

64bit still seems like it is on the edge of technology. People are not coding for it, nor are people utilizing the full capacity of what it can do. Much like a new gaming console with really amazing technology, the first few games all look like the games from the old console with slightly better frame rates.

I've installed the 64 bit versions of XP, Linux, and now Windows 7. In the Linux community, which is typically pretty "cutting edge" in what they are willing to support and write for, you'll find a lot of things will either stop working, or not install at all. Especially mass-market applications such as Flash.

I'd personally choose to run my own PC as a 64bit system, but only because I work somewhat closely with my software developer who is now developing exclusively for 64bit operating systems on the server end of things. I would steer consumers away from 64bit machines because most consumer grade applications are not 64bit friendly. They are either 32bit applications with an installer that says to let them install on a 64bit machine, or they are compiled with a 64bit compiler, but not optimized to take advantage of the additional resources.

I think the real test of when its time to go to a 64bit OS on your machine is when you see aftermarket graphics cards released in a reasonable price range that only work on a 64bit system. I think that will be the industry tell that developers finally 'get' what the advantages are, and are coding for it specifically. Until then, its an HOV lane in your computer that everyone is scared to use.

#11.1 hobbes80 on 2009-11-02 15:46 (Reply)

What did you expect ? Microsoft lost its way long ago.

I have to admit, I am a geek - actually my wife calls me and uber-geek, the geek other geeks come to for advice.

Do not get me wrong - Microsoft is not the great satan. Your list of windows releases is missing 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.11 (a substantial improvement over 3.1), ...... I was a beta testor for windows versions from about 2 through XP. Once upon a time I was an NT eveangelist. Windows 2000 was probably the last truly inovative microsoft product. XP is just 2000 with apple polish and the begining of the emphasis on treating clients like idiots.

Anyway if you want off the merry go round get yourself a copy of Linux. Ubuntu is pretty easy to start with. The rants about hardware and applications are myths - yes it is possible to find some system that you might have to google a bit to get installed - but they are rare. And I will take bets with anyone that I can install the most recent ubuntu on orders of magnitude more computers than you can install windows 7 (or vista or XP). As to applications, with few exceptions there are more quality free tools for any task than retail ones. Free Software not only means you do not have to pay for it. But for the most part you do not have to go hunt for it. Bring up your favorite linux package manager and there tens of thousands of applications available, no charge no wait, just a few minutes away from your ability to use them. For those of us with a few grey hairs - remember I beta tested versions of MS-DOS and I know who Gary Kildall was, it takes a while to migrate. Even though I used Unix and Linux systems off and on for years, it still took me 6 months before I did not occasionally have to resist the desire to reboot into windows because I knew it better. My kids of course move back and forth between windows and linux several times a day. Oh and there is an addd benefit to switching to linux - when friends, neighbors and distant relatives ask you for help fixing their windows problems you can honestly tell them you have not used windows in years. that alone is a tremondous productivity booster.

#12 dhlii (Link) on 2009-11-03 04:04 (Reply)

I've installed Win7 on my laptop and on my work computer. In both cases, I did it as a test case for others. It's quick, it's simple, and it's actually easier to manager your desktop.

The reason the programs appear in the start menu the way the do is the changed task bar functionality along the bottom. That task bar is the highlight of the system to me.

The reason the mail client was removed is that a huge number of people handle all their mail online via google or yahoo. If you want a client, install your own.

The search bar at the bottom of the start menu searches most of the computer. Open up explorer by clicking the "Computer" link in the start menu and use the search bar there if you want more.

I've installed avast, avg, and norton 2009 on Win7 just fine, so I can't duplicate that error.

I could go on, but if you want to REALLY control every aspect of your system, use LINUX. It's a bit of a learning curve and you won't be able to install programs that you've probably grown accustomed to, but that's the trade off. If you prefer windows, then you need to learn to adapt to the restrictions and opportunities place on you. Personally, I prefer Win7 over Vista and XP. Easier/faster to use. You may not like it, but that's no reason to say it's a horrible POS...

#13 Sanders on 2009-11-03 11:24 (Reply)

Sanders -

Thanks for the feedback. It's good to get your perspective, and after the hatchet job I did up above, Win7 could use a little support. :)

"It's quick, it's simple, and it's actually easier to manager your desktop."

I'm actually not sure what you mean by that. I have two icons on my Desktop, so they obviously don't need much 'managing'. I view the Desktop purely as a temporary environment, like saving an icon to an article I wish to read later.

"That task bar is the highlight of the system to me."

Are you referring to the little thumbnail routine it does? I found that eminently distracting and couldn't wait to turn it off. Ditto that 'grouping' thing. The whole thing's designed to help people find things should they have, oh, ten or fifteen programs and folders open. But seriously, how many programs does the average person run at the same time? Maybe an email program and a few browser windows? I think the big Task Bar icon that says "EMAIL" is clue enough that that's the icon I want. I don't really need a huge thumbnail of the program.

"If you want a client, install your own."

Wonderful attitude to take. For both you and Microsoft. The hitch is, I went through about a dozen programs, freeware and commercial, and couldn't find anything as good as old Outhouse Express. The big problem is wanting a program with true multiple identities. I have a post on it here.

"The search bar at the bottom of the start menu searches most of the computer."

I note you qualify that with "most". As if the older Windows Search programs didn't show everything, I think the one is Win7 is even worse. Either way, one's always needed a better search program. I use a freebie called Super Finder, works great.

"I've installed avast, avg, and norton 2009 on Win7 just fine, so I can't duplicate that error."

It was Norton SystemWorks 2009, and it was one of those 'compatibility' boxes. But I've gotten that on a handful of programs and I believe they all installed and ran just fine.

"I could go on, but if you want to REALLY control every aspect of your system, use LINUX."

I have an old buddy who loves it and I've seen it in action. But, see, I'm heavily into video, and there are enough snags and hitches and bugs and incompatibilities and format mismatches and all the rest in the video world that I really don't like dicking with system problems and such. That's what's so different with the older versions of Windows and the ones from XP on. The older ones were SO less intrusive. They just sat in the background and did their job. Compare that to the dreaded UAC in Vista.

"You may not like it, but that's no reason to say it's a horrible POS..."

Well, sure it is. I'm the one writing the review, ergo I'm the one who gets to call it a POS. As referred to all the glamour boys who've shilled themselves to Microsoft by praising Win7 to High Heaven, all the while misleadingly referring to Vista as 'bloatware'. I haven't read or seen a review yet that even came close to being impartial.

And, just to end on a high note, you'll recall that I didn't call it a 'POS' to the vast majority of the readers. In fact, I encouraged them to install it. But to us techies, tinkerers, nerds and geeks, Win7 is heading steadfastedly in the wrong direction.

#13.1 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-03 12:10 (Reply)

I'll try to make my statements a bit more specific this time. Never thought that the author of the post would respond...

I said it's easier to manage your desktop. When I said that, I was considering the desktop to be the environment in which you interact with the system. To be more accurate, I should have said that it's easier to manage open windows. For a bit of background, I'm a student working as the web developer for my university. I frequently have two different browsers, email, a couple of folders, a development environment, and database management software operating at once over two monitors. Sometimes I have photoshop and an IM client open as well. Integrating the quick launch and task bar functionality has been awesome. Frequently used programs only require one click to open. Recently opened programs are available via the start menu. Items are grouped, and when I hover over them, a preview of each instance is opened. I can close windows via the X button in that same preview. Since I've been mandated to work in Windows, I've been extremely happy with this feature. Maybe you don't need to manage as much. Maybe you usually only open two or three things at a time. That functionality still allows you easy access to those programs. You can use small icons if you think the default is too big, and once you open up the program, the icon is replaced by a standard task bar entry. I don't see how these features aren't useful to most people. At first, it's jarring. It was for me. Use it for a while, and I think you'll find that you'll get over that initial shock.

As for email clients, I personally don't like windows mail due to it's junk mail controls. they work most of the time, but marking things as junk and not as junk takes too many clicks. However, email clients are a dime a dozen. I'm more than certain you can find another that fits your needs. For example, managing multiple identities is as simple as clicking the "Manage Identities" button in the account settings screen. I don't personally use this, but I have a friend who runs a web hosting business, and he seems to like it just fine...

Windows search is pretty weak. Of course, I think every search feature is kinda weak compared to the find command in linux/unix. However, the start menu search is great for finding rarely used programs (remote desktop connection, command line, etc). If you're just worried about losing stuff, I'd recommend setting up a folder structure which allows you to easily find your stuff and a central folder where everything gets downloaded from the web. I'm sure you probably already do this, but I wanted to throw it out there anyway.

I'm sure some programs will break with the updated version, but there was a significant beta period for developers to ensure their software worked in the new OS.

I can understand not using linux if you're heavy into video/audio editing. Some OK software for it on linux, but Windows/Mac have much better. And UAC is Vista does just seem to be a nuisance. SELinux give better security (though still not perfect).

Actually, I was mostly interested in the part of the post in which you addressed the computer geeks. If you don't like it, that's cool. However, as a linux kernel hacker (i like to compile my own and have a library of useful scripts I've written over the years), I can safely say that many of your complaints don't apply to the hardcore users. Perhaps technically you CAN say it's a flaming pile of dog poo, but I would hope that you'd be more impartial. I liked how you listed your complains. The opinion, I could have done without. For example, you can disable system restore: http://www.nirmaltv.com/2009/03/14/how-to-enable-or-disable-system-restore-in-windows-7/.

Lastly, I don't generally use windows outside of work and gaming. I like being able to take complete control of my box. That's why I use linux. I am in no way a Microsoft fan boy and curse them often for their SQL server, poor OS security, and horrifically large hardware requirements. However, I am willing to give them credit when they've done good things. Hope the post hasn't been TOO long...

#13.1.1 Sanders on 2009-11-03 14:40 (Reply)

Everyone is just too damn smart these days and I still do not understand how the telephone works!!!

#14 opie109 on 2009-11-03 12:03 (Reply)

Opie -

Telephones actually work very easily. When you hang up, the little speaker in the phone shuts off. When it rings and you pick it up, it goes back on. The little microphone part never shuts off. It's wired directly into that big NSA computer they've got in South Dakota.

You don't actually hear the microphone part shutting off, do you? Well, there ya go.

Have a nice day,
Doc

#15 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-03 12:15 (Reply)

Sanders -

"Never thought that the author of the post would respond..."

Odd, isn't it? Call it 'habit'. For ten years, before the web came along, I ran a big BBS located in the heart of Silicon Valley. I "blogged" daily on topical events and such in the message base, and on a BBS, everything is public. If you didn't answer someone, you looked like you lost the argument. In the blogs, they just post their opinion and scurry away because the comments aren't out in the open.

And, of course, the 'quality' of the comment has something to do with it. Both you and Hobbes disagreed with many things I said in this post, but you both approached it calmly and reasonably. As such, you deserve a response.

And speaking of which, let us continue...

"I frequently have two different browsers, email, a couple of folders, a development environment, and database management software operating at once over two monitors. Sometimes I have photoshop and an IM client open as well."

Ditto, but my feeling is, as long as one gets rid of the daffy Quick Launch bar and keeps the SysTray whittled down to just the icons one wants, there's plenty of room on a standard Task Bar for the icons. And, for that matter, while I may have a number of proggies and folders open, I'm usually just using two of them at the moment (like transferring text from a web page to a blog post), but I use Alt-Tab to flip between them. Or, if I've got three programs I'm currently dealing with, Alt-Tab-Tab. (After the SendTo feature, Alt-Tab is my personal favorite Windows function.)

"However, email clients are a dime a dozen. I'm more than certain you can find another that fits your needs."

You obviously didn't glance over that link I included. I went through more than a dozen programs and never did find one that matched up to ancient, creaky Outhouse Express because of the "multiple identities" criteria. I finally found one that does the job, and actually handles multiple identities better than OE, but it's got other bugs, like the 'center justification' doesn't work.

As a small aside, I've never dealt with "junk mail" categories. Comcast, RoadRunner and Verizon (my last three ISPs) all did a terrific job with spam. Using everything straight out of the box, I probably get one official spam a month with Verizon Wireless.

"If you're just worried about losing stuff, I'd recommend setting up a folder structure which allows you to easily find your stuff and a central folder where everything gets downloaded from the web. I'm sure you probably already do this, but I wanted to throw it out there anyway."

Well, yeah, probably. :)

"Some OK software for it [video] on linux, but Windows/Mac have much better."

Just FYI, for large commercial programs, the PC and Mac are about the same, but for the small, independent proggies that do one small (very valuable) specific video function, the Mac is almost worthless.

"And UAC in Vista does just seem to be a nuisance. SELinux give better security (though still not perfect)."

Just to note, though, UAC isn't a "security" system, by definition. It's no more than what it appears to be: a warning that you're about to (gasp!) adjust something. If you've got a couple of teenagers in the house using your computer, you pull them over, point out what the box looks like and tell them, "If you ever see this message, come get me and we'll do it together." But for systems that only have one (competent) user, it's completely ridiculous.

"I can safely say that many of your complaints don't apply to the hardcore users."

As a writer, I have to be conscious of not only going over the audience's head, but not patronizing them, either. It's supposed to be understood that when I say "geeks" in this context, I mean "Windows-using geeks". Hardcore geeks would (1) not be interested in anything I have to say, and (2) probably wouldn't be on Maggie's in the first place. :)

"Perhaps technically you CAN say it's a flaming pile of dog poo, but I would hope that you'd be more impartial."

Just curious, but is that what you said about the fawning shills who denegrated Vista so callously yet lauded Win7 to the high heavens without actually mentioning how much stuff they removed? Nobody's "impartial" in this business, but at least I was open about it.

"I liked how you listed your complaints. The opinion, I could have done without."

See above. And wouldn't it have been a little "dry" without some opinion thrown in? Given that Maggie's has more-or-less turned into a political site over the past year, I'd say this place needs all the 'opinion' it can get.

"For example, you can disable system restore:"

Ah, thankee. I never though of looking in System Protection. The two have always been separated since they introduced System Protection in XP. I just now booted into my Win7 system, did the tweak, and immediately felt much better. Whew!

"I am in no way a Microsoft fan boy and curse them often for their SQL server, poor OS security, and horrifically large hardware requirements."

Amen, brudder. I'd still be on my Amiga if it hadn't fallen by the wayside. Damn. The one I bought in 1987 could do things that my ultra-modern PC still can't do.

"However, I am willing to give them credit when they've done good things."

That's a healthy attitude, and is pretty much how I view it. Like politicians, it's a "lesser of evils" game. Windows works "less bad" than the other OS's for my video work, so that's what I use. If a video program came out just for the Mac that I just HAD to have, I'd install Mac emulation and use that. OS's really mean nothing to me. Program functionality is everything.

"Hope the post hasn't been TOO long..."

You just said that to the person who has the six longest Maggie's posts in history to his credit.

Or blame, depending upon one's interests. :)

#16 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-04 09:06 (Reply)

Sorry for the long space between replies. Got busy at work/school and forgot to come back and visit...

I'd like to start by looking at some of the issues you pointed out in your original post:

Changing Window Colors: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/282-window-color-appearance-change.html

Align to Grid (at least for desktop): Right-click on desktop and http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1499/windows7grid.png

Disable Hibernate: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/819-hibernate-enable-disable.html

Movie Maker: The desktop program is gone, but they made an internet version available: http://download.live.com/moviemaker. Not sure if all the functionality is the same though...

Disable UAC & Security Messages: http://www.blogsdna.com/1815/how-to-disable-uac-turn-off-uac-in-windows-7-beta-1-build-7000.htm and http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd492018.aspx

That's all I've found so far. Lots of stuff moved around, so it can be hard to find. I understand the frustration of moving to a different system, but being adaptive and having patience are extremely important when you're trying to get the most out of the latest and greatest...

As for the email client thing, I didn't read the link above before my last post because didn't see it. Sorry. I really don't ever use the multiple identities thing, so I have no idea. I know that you can set up rules/filters in Outlook, Thunderbird, etc where you can filter input. Maybe those can do what you want, but then again perhaps not.

If anything I read these kinds of reviews to figure out what people are trying to do with their machines and what kind of problems they encounter. That way I can look up solutions to problems before I get that 11 pm phone call. As the defacto tech support guy for my family, I really need to keep up with this kind of stuff :)

Lastly, for the opinion issue. I have maggiesfarm in my RSS feed and I'm a religious reader. I'm well aware that everything here's opinion. Heck, that's why I visit. Again, when I said I had a problem with the opinion, I probably should have given a more concrete example of what I felt wasn't helpful: "You will HATE this train wreck of an OS." I will HATE it? Really? More a point on style than anything else, but perhaps you could say "I HATED this..." Personally, I would have focused more on the fact that if you like what you have now, this upgrade probably isn't worth the money. Of course, that's pretty much true with everything. If people went with that attitude with everything they own, many would have a LOT less debt...

I enjoy your posts, so please keep the tips comin.

#16.1 Sanders on 2009-11-05 23:01 (Reply)

Merc,

Could you (briefly) 'splain' the "bak" feature with Outhouse Express" ? (Why, need to use it, etc).

Tanks eh!!

#17 Garry on 2009-11-06 08:54 (Reply)

Dear Gar-eh Of The Frozen Wasteland -

The 'bak' system in Outhouse Express is an in-house (so to speak) backup system that you'll never use. It's in case a folder ("Inbox", "Sent", etc) gets corrupted, but I've never heard of such a case. As we say in the Bronx, fuggedaboudit!

Of course, your mentioning OE is very telling, is it not? It means you're using an operating system that's almost EIGHT YEARS OLD!!!

As you assuredly know, Maggie's Farm prides itself on being cutting-edge. Why, just last week we ran an electrical line out to the barn, and that fancy post-hole digger we just picked up beats the tar out of using your bare hands.

And this same state-of-the-art mentality we nurture also manifests itself in the world of these fancy new "super-computing calculators" we see around. Nor, as the resident super-computing calculator expert, do I let the boys slide into their bad old ways. For example, a few weeks ago I insisted Bird Dog upgrade his old rig, so he promptly installed a brand new set of AA batteries. Good for him!

But getting back to you, allow me to say this:

I would like to heartily condemn you for your ancient, creaky operating system.

I would like to point out how hackneyed and archaic you appear before your peers.

I would like to note that XP users are somewhere in between "doorknobs" and "dog drool" on the evolutionary scale of things.

I would like to do all these things, but I can't.

And do you know why?

Because, after using the horrid Vista for two weeks, I'm now using XP again.

Please don't tell. :)

By the way, would you mind if I used your name in a post? I saw this really cute answer in a NY Times crossword puzzle the other day and it'd make a fun post. Now, I could just use the regular "dumbass ignorant inbred Canucks" line that everybody else uses, but I figured it'd save pixels (and thus prevent global warming) if I just used the word "Garry".

Let me know,
Doc

#18 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-06 09:28 (Reply)

Dr. XP,

Your secret will forever remain (unrevealed) by yours truly !!

BTW, I'm quite content with my pedal operated system, TYVM.

Go ahead with your Xword post...keep it clean & respectful. If not, I'll retort with a DIIA comment !

Cheers.

#18.1 Garry on 2009-11-06 10:09 (Reply)

Garnook of the Hintered Frozeland -

"Go ahead with your Xword post...keep it clean & respectful."

Pardon me?

"If not, I'll retort with a DIIA comment !"

Great, as if I don't have ENOUGH to do, what with email and blog comments and downloading porno and all the other important things in life, now I have to go look up "DIIA".

Division of Instructional Innovation and Assessment?

(That's my best guess)

Defense Interaction Intelligence Agency?

Drakes Island Improvement Association?

Dysfunctional Inbred Inuit Alaskans?

You'll be interested to know that even a Google search for "diia abbreviation" doesn't turn up dick, which means it's not even in the 'urban dictionary' or 'slang dictionary', and if it's not there, it doesn't exist in the real world.

"But everybody in Canada knows it!"

My point exactly.

Doc

#19 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-06 10:28 (Reply)

Merc,

You've just proved mine as well !!! (again)......

Can't figgeritout eh? !!

The Canuck

#19.1 Garry on 2009-11-06 10:45 (Reply)

Garhint of the Nookland Frozewaste -

Well, it's the 'A' that's the toughie. Otherwise, I'd go with something like "Do It In-" or "Don't Interfere In-" or something along those lines.

You'll be continually interested to note that even searches for "diia canadian slang" turned up zip, even though I set my browser to "Allow Third-World Countries". I even spent a delightful 10 minutes on the DIIA Blog, all to no avail.

Do I get a clue?

Is it Swahili?

#19.1.1 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-06 11:56 (Reply)

Merc,

Nah.....we'll both be "clueless" on this one !!

I'll await your xword post.

Cheers.

#19.1.1.1 Garry on 2009-11-06 13:00 (Reply)

Sanders -

"and forgot to come back and visit..."

You can 'subscribe' to the thread down below.

"Changing Window Colors"

I had seen that before, but I was referring to something like the old way. You can still get to it, but then you have to turn Aero off, and now you've turned your system into that exciting "late 90's look", and after decades of that flat, 2-D look, I like Aero and the transparent borders and all that.

And, as long as we're on the subject, a tip of the hat should be given to the people who designed the Vista Aero transparency. It's actually quite interesting to examine. It it's just transparent. There some other hidden pattern that it occasionally picks up pieces from. Very well done.

"Align to Grid (at least for desktop)"

Yeah, for the Desktop. One of the most puzzling things about Vista was why they allowed the folder icons to stretch when expanding the size of the folder's window. It just looks weird. Nicely, it goes away when you flip on on 'Align to Grid'. A shame they removed it, but, if the whiny vocal minority is screaming about "bloatware", well, ya gotta start somewhere.

Disable Hibernate:

I found a DOS command for my Vista Tweaks that not only turns it off, but gets rid of the 3-gig file. Also works for Win7. If you just turn it off via Windows, it leaves the big file, thereby doubling the time it takes to make an image file and doubling its size.

"Movie Maker: The desktop program is gone, but they made an internet version available"

You know what I've always thought was weird about Windows? You'd think on its very first boot there'd be a little ReadMe file right in the middle of the Desktop, filled with tips and tricks like, "Oh, BTW, in case you noticed we shit on you by eliminating nice little Movie Maker, you can still get it online at (link)." Why not?

"Disable UAC"

A quote from the page (pardon the bad English):

"User account control (UAC) a new feature which was introduced in Microsoft windows vista has become more annoying feature."

Two mouse clicks ... two! ... and the "annoying" feature is history.

"So, what do you think of your new Vista?"

"I find it really annoying!"

"Oh!"

If you want to get my dander up, just start talking about all the asswipe dickweed "experts" out there. Two mouse clicks turns into an urban legend that Vista is "annoying".

"& Security Messages"

Ah-ha! Thank you very much. And I guess it makes sense that the 'Action Center' held the answer, since it was inaction on the messages' part that I was seeking.

"I understand the frustration of moving to a different system, but being adaptive and having patience are extremely important when you're trying to get the most out of the latest and greatest..."

Having gone through a long line of OS's, including four on the Mac, about six on the Amiga, and Gawd-knows how many Windows (including Windows Whistler and Longhorn), I'm always profoundly disappointed in what they're removed in the name of 'modernization'. I tend to see more bad than good.

And that's certainly true with Vista. The only demonstrable improvement I see is with drive speed. Being able to turn off the hard drives' caching really lets the SATA drives fly. Picked up a brand-new top-of-the-line Seagate 1-T drive just the other day. Sucker smokes.

On the other hand, I don't copy a lot of 4-gig files around, so is the additional drive speed worth the problems with Vista?

As a small aside, I'm running into that "Hardware Interrupts" problem that others have. An hour or two into the boot, sometimes the CPU starts hanging out around 45%, and Process Explorer reports it's "Hardware Interrupts", nor can it shut it/them down. A Google search of 15 minutes the other day turned up lots of problems and zero answers. "Rogue driver" was as close as I got. Only thing that fixes it is a reboot.

BTW, I've still got my Whistler install disc. I wonder if it's worth anything. I took to Longhorn big-time, even had a mini-site up with tips, tricks and workarounds. There was a whole raft of people out there who just assumed it was going to be release momentarily.

Imagine our surprise!

"I know that you can set up rules/filters in Outlook, Thunderbird, etc"

I looked at something like ten freebie progs, and while a few of them allowed you to change the 'From:' box, all the mail to the multiple identities still came in to the same Inbox, etc. It wasn't until I hit the commercial market that I found one that did it correctly.

"If anything I read these kinds of reviews to figure out what people are trying to do with their machines and what kind of problems they encounter."

Well, don't use me as a judge. I thrash my machine. If I'm not rendering a video in the background while downloading the latest episode of 'House' and answering two comments at the same time while whipping up a new blog post, I just don't feel like my machine's earning its keep. "A busy computer's a happy computer!" I always tell it.

I'm not saying it believes me.

"You will HATE this train wreck of an OS." I will HATE it?"

And, not to shortshrift me, I also bolded and italicized it. But I see your point. I usually IMHO when I'm about ready to issue an opinion, but this was the first sentence of the article and I've never been one to shy away from impact. Hence the capitalizing, bolding and italicizing, probably the first time I've ever done that in a Maggie's post.

And then you came along. :)

"I enjoy your posts, so please keep the tips comin."

You and Hobbes defending the default -- oh, wait, there's no choice anymore, so it's not the "default" menu, it's THE menu! -- defending the Start Menu in Win7 inspired me to whip up a "How to organize your Start Menu correctly" post for tomorrow. Right now I've got to (barf!) fire up my Win7 system and see if it can even come close to the way we do it in XP and Vista.

All I remember from the day I used Win7 (hereafter referred to as "the nightmare") was right-clicking on the Start Menu button and going "Uh-oh!" at what popped up. It spelled trouble, but I didn't pursue it at the time.

Thanks again for the links,
Doc

#20 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-06 11:44 (Reply)

I saw the subscribe thing, but I've got enough stuff in my inbox as it is. Also, I never really anticipating doing this much posting...

The windows color trick above works exactly like what was in Vista. The themes are default, but a theme is made up of several components: desktop background, window color, etc. Changing the window color in the manner listed above. will keep aero active. I've tested this on two different machines, so I'm fairly confident it'll work.

While you can't change the start menu back to the classic view, you can do some customization. First, you can get rid of the list of recently opened programs: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/2275-recent-programs-turn-off.html. Next, you can pin whatever you want to the start menu: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/744-start-menu-pin-unpin-program.html. Lastly, while you can't change the start menu to classic view, you can replace it. You'll have to install third-party software and play with your startup settings, but it can be done: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/2227/get-the-classic-start-menu-in-windows-7/. I agree that you shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops in order to customize the look of the desktop, but it can be done with enough work.

I'm totally with you on the changelog. If Microsoft included that, they'd seriously decrease the amount of time and number of hacks people have to use in order to get their system the way they want it.

That's an impressive list of OS's you've installed. More than me (unless you count all the linux distros I've tried. Don't really think of those as different OS's though...). I didn't mean to be insulting when I said people should be more adaptive and patient, but a second reading shows I probably was. Sorry about that. Allow me to be a bit more specific with an example. I didn't like the Win7 quick launch style task bar when I first used it, but after using it for a few days, I rarely even open the start menu anymore. If I need a program that isn't on my task bar or a shortcut on my desktop (about 4 icons on the desktop including trash can), I just type its name into the search feature of the start menu. Now that I've used it for a while and broken old habbits, I like the new functionality. Perhaps if you spend a couple of days using the system as it was intended to be used, you'll find that you don't hate it quite as much as you did. Just a suggestion. After all, if you like your Vista install, you should probably keep it.

I also agree with you on the bait-n-switch Microsoft likes to pull with its OS's. I saw the feature list for Longhorn and got excited. Then I saw everything they left out when they released Vista. It was pretty disappointing.

I've also come up with a possible solution to the email problem. If you download and install Windows Live, Windows Live Mail is included http://home.live.com/. It should have the same functionality as the Windows Mail in Vista. Hope it works out for you.

I looked into the hardware interrupt issue you mentioned (hadn't heard about this before now), and there have been a couple of people who've given some clues. It looks like Microsoft did some work on handling interrupts when moving to Win7. A few people solved their problem by updating their motherboard bios. Several posts mention the problem going away after uninstalling Nvidia drivers. Their graphics were horrible since they only had default VGA drivers working after that, but their CPU usage dropped. Nvidia's had problems with their drivers starting with Vista. Ironically, their linux driver seems more stable and reliable than their Windows drivers. Don't know if you've seen those kinds of posts before, but hopefully that at least gives you something to look into...

Lastly, for all those people who've trashed Vista and basically had an orgasm over Win7, I'd tell them to get a flippin life. Computers can't read your mind, and there are limits to what it can do. There's no way that Vista could be as bad as many said, and there's no way Win7 is the utopia of computing that many claim it to be. It's just on OS...

#20.1 Sanders on 2009-11-07 13:03 (Reply)

Sanders -

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Been absorbed in a good book for the last couple of days.

Suffice to say that I appreciate the links and tips and I'll include them in a "Win7 Tweaks" page if/when I get around to it.

At the moment, I'm trying to decide if I want to go back to XP. I only started using Vista about a month ago in anticipation of giving the just-released Windows 7 a fair and impartial evaluation. Well, except for the "HATE" part. I had to learn Vista so I'd know what was changed in Win7, but that was the only reason I switched.

As it stands, there are a whole bunch of little things in Vista that annoy me -- things I never even thought about in XP -- so there's no real reason not to go back to XP.

But you know what the problem is?

I fired up my XP system the other day...

and it looked drab. :)

Thanks again for the great input,
Doc

#21 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-10 14:36 (Reply)

"and it looked drab"

Merc,

Are you sure it was the VDT you were looking at?

The mirror maybe.............

;-)

#21.1 Garry on 2009-11-12 14:01 (Reply)

Gar -

"Are you sure it was the VDT you were looking at?"

It took me a minute, but I finally figured out the flaw in your logic.

Is there any reason why we both can't be drab?

Hah! We're BOTH drab! I win! I win!

I think.

#22 Dr. Mercury (Link) on 2009-11-12 16:44 (Reply)

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Monday, November 2. 2009

Doc's Computin' Tips: Windows 7